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Summary:
Not that anyone is counting, but there’s only 145 days left until tax day in the US. To make sure we’re making smart year end tax moves and setting ourselves up for success for tax season. Mike Jesowshek, CPA and owner of JETRO, shares what the 2022 tax filing season looks like for small businesses. He gives advice on how to handle health insurance, retirement savings, and what to do if you want to buy a vehicle for the business. If you hired or started selling physical goods, Mike has some tips for you to be aware of the first time your file. Stick to deducting things you’re already spending money on, instead of purchasing things you don’t need. By turning after-tax dollars into pre-tax dollars through your business, you’ll save the most money.
Topics on this episode:
New tax law for this year
Accounting methods
Health Insurance deductions
Investing and retirement savings
PPP and EIDL in 2021
Vehicles and your business
Main take away? Use your business to start turning after-tax dollars into pre-tax dollars and save money!
About our guest:
Mike Jesowshek is a modern and innovative CPA, taking a new age approach to accounting, tax savings, and growing your business. He is the founder of JETRO, a digital accounting firm, and host of the Small Business Tax Savings Podcast. Mike has both a bachelors and masters in accounting.
Mike has spent the majority of his career as an entrepreneur. He was CFO and co-founded several companies and has experience in all business stages. He set out on a mission to help businesses that have seen and lived the same experiences he did in business. This is how JETRO was built. He has been in the shoes of many small business owners out there and his end goal is to help them in one area that most business owners are not familiar with, accounting and taxes.
Links:
022: www.petsitterconfessional.com/episodes/022-taxes
044: www.petsitterconfessional.com/episodes/044-coronavirus-relief-options-with-mike-jesowshek
127: www.petsitterconfessional.com/episodes/127
JETRO: https://www.jetrotax.com
Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/taxsavings
Podcast Website: https://www.taxsavingspodcast.com/
IRS traveling meal deduction and what is home domicile: https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc511
TaxJar- https://www.taxjar.com
Get Payroll Software like GUSTO: https://gusto.com/d/collin1453
Peisner Johnson: https://peisnerjohnson.com
Relay Bank: https://relayfi.com/
Blog on PPP/EIDL Info: https://www.taxsavingspodcast.com/blog/what-do-i-need-to-know-about-the-covid-relief-bill *Note a change in what was said: "Forgiveness is not taxable and businesses ARE able to deduct expenses paid with forgiven PPP funds."
Blog on Cash vs Accrual: https://www.taxsavingspodcast.com/blog/what-is-cash-and-accrual-accounting
Blog on Sales Tax: https://www.taxsavingspodcast.com/blog/what-do-i-need-to-know-about-sales-tax
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business, deduction, employees, pay, sales tax, run, tax, pet sitters, people, expenses, vehicle, solo 401k, tax savings, deductible, bookkeeping, filing, account, income, business owner, sep ira
SPEAKERS
Collin, Mike
00:17
Hi, I'm Meghan. I'm Collin. And this is Pet Sitter confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet and pet sitters International.
Collin 00:30
Not that anybody is counting, but there are 145 days until Tax Day here in the United States. So it's with that in mind that we are really excited to have Mike Jesu check back on the show. He owns and operates JETRO tax for small businesses. He's was on the show previously, back when episodes 2244 and 127. Mike shares with us something brand new for this and next year's tax filing that we need to be paying attention to. He also discusses if you hired this year, or if you started accounting for sales tax, some things that you need to have on hand when you go to File. We also talked about the difference between putting something on the business account versus your personal account, and when to make that decision, especially when it comes around purchasing a vehicle. We're really excited about this. And there's a lot covered here. So get your pen and paper. Let's get started.
Mike 01:24
Yeah, Colin, thanks for having me on. It's always always a fun time being on the podcast. So to kick
Collin 01:30
things off, what new things for tax season should we as small business owners be thinking about? Or maybe you want more people to know about?
Mike 01:40
Yeah, so you know, the big thing that, you know, one of the most important things here that that is a change, specifically for this year, and next year. So 2021 and 2022, is this idea of meals expense. So traditionally, meal expenses are 50% deductible. So you go to lunch with a client, you pay for that lunch, you get a 50% reduction in pay $100, your tax deduction is going to be $50. But due to COVID, for 2021, and 2022, the IRS has increased that amount for any dinners that you do at restaurants or meals that you do at restaurants to be 100% deduction. So now you go out to lunch with that client, it's 100% deduction for 2021 in 2022, may likely or will likely revert back to that percent after next year. But that is one thing that I think some people don't realize or understand is that's available this year. So that's, that's one major change that, that we're gonna want to be thinking about this year. And going into next year, in another thing on that topic is to go back and think about some of those lunches, some of those meals that you might have done already this year, making sure you're keeping record of them and making sure that you are taking a 50 or 100% deduction on it. So I always kind of tell you, and we'll talk about this a little bit later. But this idea of go back through your expenses, maybe some expenses that you did on your personal account, and see if Hey, maybe there was some things that were business related in there, that I can make that business expense, and meals might be a great option. Now with that being 100% deductible
Collin 03:14
meals is always something I think it's a big topic of what's covered and what's not. And I do want to ask, well, you're talking specifically about meals, when you are doing some business planning meeting with a business partner taking a client out to lunch, if I am as the business owner going between visits or going from job to job, can I put those those kinds of expenses on a business account? Or Should this really go more on personal,
Mike 03:39
traditionally, if it's just you individually, traditionally, those are going to go on your personal side. Now, if you were traveling, like let's say you were overnight, or you were traveling, you know, for a conference or something like that, that's a different story. That would be 100. That would be deductible, just as anyways. But if you're just going from, let's say you're going from your home office to a client, that's 10 minutes down the road, and in between there, you're going to stop and pick up a sandwich and a drink. That's not going to be a tax deduction. But again, if you're traveling, if you're going further away, if you're meeting with a client or anybody else, that it's actually a business meeting, that's the purpose of the meal. That's where the deduction deduction comes so that that's cool. Yeah, think about that way, you know, they don't want to think of meals that you're going to have to do as a personal person anyway. So like, you can't just deduct your your dinners every night, because you're like, Well, I'm a business owner, so I can deduct my dinners, if it's not business related. And so that's kind of the idea behind that. You have to be traveling kind of other ways away, or there has to be in a business reason for that specific meeting or meal that you're having.
Collin 04:47
Is there a set place to go and look for what constitutes traveling and further away? Is it X number of miles from your home domicile or is it just if you are registered for a conference, then things get deducted for that?
Mike 05:00
Yeah, there is an actual specific kind of distance away from your home that you have to be where that's considered a travel or an overnight travel. I don't know the number offhand. But if you just search into Google like IRS travel eight, what's considered a traveling meal? Or what, where meals deductible for traveling, you'll be able to find it there. And then I also have an article that we did on it on our small business tax savings podcast. So I'll share a link for you to that you can share that in the show notes.
Collin 05:27
Yeah, I think that's that's, that's really good. Because many times as business owners, especially as pet sitters, we're traveling, we're constantly busy. And there's always that that itch to do lunch on the business. But as you're saying, that's not really applicable as a as a qualifying deduction for business. So make sure that goes on the personal side. Well, on that, we've used two words, we've used a business account and a personal account. But it sounds pretty basic and pretty simple when it comes to starting an operating a business. But why is it so important to have those distinctions between my business and my personal life? Yeah,
Mike 06:04
and that is so huge. It's something that we see. So so many small business owners not do correctly, in the main reason that you want to have a separate business account from a personal bank account is simply for for simplicity purposes, you can have a full record of everything that's going on the business, it's not commingled with a bunch of other items. And so oftentimes, we say, you're going to miss the deductions if you don't have those separated, because you might have went out to, to lunch with a client. But now when you're kind of recording your bookkeeping and doing those things, you're like, what was that lunch was that for personal or business, and sometimes you might be missing out on a deduction because you categorize it on the wrong way. On the flip side, you won't be taking more deductions than you actually legally can. Because you might have that, that deduction or that that meal that you went out with, individually or alone, or you went out with a bunch of buddies, and there was nothing business related to that, that you might accidentally take, because you didn't have that separation. So the reason that we always want to have a business account separate from our personal account is one, it makes it easy to record everything that's going on in the business, because we know everything in the business is going through that business account. Now, you might have some things to accidentally get burned on the personal account. And then you can do a reimbursement to reimburse yourself for those items. Or if you have items that are business and personally mixed, you can do a reimbursement to to reimburse yourself for the business piece. But it creates that simplicity where you'd have all the income and all the expenses related to the business, it makes bookkeeping, so much easier, because you know, every single transaction, that count can be coded to something, it also helps in the event of an IRS audit, because you have that clear separation. If you send the IRS a bank statement, and hit has 1000 transactions of which 200, you said were business related, they might start to scrutinize your business transactions a little bit more deeper, because they see it commingled and mixed in with a bunch of things. So they might ask for receipts and more proof that maybe if you had a business account that they might not ask for, because they can see that clear distinction between the two, it just for cleansiness purpose. And I always tell people, the most people get started in business, a lot of people are like, I really don't know where this is gonna go, we're starting out really small. So they get started in business, not really sure kind of where it's going to take off what's going to happen. And in so for that reason, they just keep everything in their personal account. But then that business grows, and they still have everything in their personal account, and then they grow even more and they still have everything that personal account. And also they have a nice operating business here. But their bookkeeping and and of course when it comes to tax time is a disaster. And so I always say, regardless of kind of where you think this business is going to do, how it's going to take off, just go open up a business bank account, get a debit card associated with it, and run your activity through there. Worst case scenario, things don't work out, you shut the account down and you're fine. Best case scenario, things grow. Everything works out great. Well now you kind of have at least that good foundation that good start to having kind of those clean set of books. They're
Collin 09:08
also add, for me, one of the reasons why I love having the differences, not just meeting the regulations and making tax accounting easier. When I go back to reflect on like expenses from the previous year and do more tracking over time to see what my expenses are per month. It makes it a lot easier to start pulling out some of this data and start crunching it. Then if I'm having to go oh, well, that was those were leashes. But that was a grocery store run and that was the kids tuition and that was this and that was that. It just to be able to have one set, you know, throw an Excel file and start seeing how much have my expensive change what am I actually spent, what's the revenue and you can really see imply it makes it a lot more powerful and easier to work with. And if you're having to parse through all of your personal stuff to
Mike 09:52
Yeah, I completely agree. And, you know, the some people might say, well, I don't want to pay an extra fee to my bank for this business bank account. There's actually a new digital bank that super cool that we've kind of been working and gearing clients towards, that have free accounts. It's an completely online digital bank, you can have multiple debit cards, you can have virtual credit cards, you literally can open up a business bank account in five minutes online by providing some documentation in your business. And you can be set with a business bank account online. So I encourage people to think about you know that it is a lot easier than you might think you don't need to necessarily have all these documentations pay a monthly fee or anything like that. There are free options out there company I'm referring to that we work a lot with is called Relay fi. So relay financial relay fi.com. But so very similar to Novo same type of model, just a different bank. But yeah, and there's there's a bunch of them out there. And honestly, it just makes it so much easier when you're trying to to get access really quickly to a business bank account.
Collin 10:54
Yeah, people might have concerns about doing an online only and not having access to a physical location. I know the majority of those online only ones still have relationships where you can go into a physical location for another bank, still use their ATM and possibly be reimbursed for ATM fees, or still deposit checks or still get cashier's checks through search through their network of physical bank locations. So you're not totally removed from having access to a lot of those services to
Mike 11:21
Yeah, and nothing I say is that you can start out with one of those just because it's super easy to get set up. It's free, no charge. And also you if you have a great relationship with a local bank or something like that, you're like, I would just rather feel more comfortable. Great. Well, now your business is performing well, you go open that bank account. But if I just don't want the idea of having to open a bank account to be what deters people from doing it. And that's where I think that these digital options are a great a great alternative. Because there's really no excuse with those digital options because it is so easy to get set up. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, if someone has a relationship, and they want that personal banker, of course, totally go to a bank that you feel comfortable with. But it just takes a little bit more to get a business bank account opened up in us in the live setting than what other options are. So I always just say, there is no excuse to not have a business bank account because it only takes a couple minutes online to get one at least initially set up.
Collin 12:17
Right now is the perfect time to do a year end review. And one of the things we need to be assessing is our business software. Have you heard of time to pet Dan from NYC pooch has this to say
12:28
I'm Tibet has been a total game changer for us. It's helped us streamline many aspects of our operation from scheduling and communication to billing and customer management. We actually tested other petsitting software's in the past, but these other solutions were clunky and riddled with problems. Everything in time to pets has been so well thought out. It's intuitive feature rich, and it's always improving.
Collin 12:48
If you think it's time to make a change, give time to pet a try listeners of our show and save 50% off your first three months by visiting timed pet.com/confessions. And once we get those accounts set up, we have to start doing accounting and tracking the expenses in a particular model. And the two ones that are on a lot of forms are when you go to file taxes you're going to get asked about are the whether you do cash accounting or accrual accounting. So what's what's the difference between those? And how do I know which one applies to me or not?
Mike 13:22
Yeah, so So cash basis accounting is essentially or bookkeeping. And, and we're kind of talking this area, accounting and bookkeeping can be interchangeable. But cash basis accounting is basically that as money enters and leaves your bank account, that's when it gets recorded. So if it's November 1, or December 1, and you get a deposit that came in for some dog walking that you did, that's going to be income on December 1, when that money comes in. If you then go make an expense pay a contractor that you might have on December 2, that's going to be an expense on December 2. So cash basis is really just kind of recording the activity as it's actually happening. Income is recorded when you receive it. expenses are recorded when you make them pay them. Now accrual is going to be a little bit different. So accrual, you're going to have invoices and bills that you're tracking that activity. So let's say you did a dog walking in November, you're going to create an invoice and you're actually going to report income or sales in November, regardless of when you get paid. So if you get paid in December in January, if you get paid two years from now, with accrual accounting, you're going to already have recorded that activity. And this November so the cruel How it works is as you said, as you earn that money, you show income as you earn it not necessarily when you receive it. And expenses also are recorded when they occur not not necessarily when they're paid. So an example for that might be let's say you buy a bunch of product or buy a bunch of you know activity or you have a contractor that did work for you in November. Remember, you didn't pay them till December, you're going to get that expense when that actual contractor worked, which was November, not necessarily when they got paid. So cash is a very easy to understand it makes accounting and bookkeeping a lot easier, accrual is going to be a little bit more accurate to reality, because you're actually reporting income when it occurs. And you're recording expenses when it occurs, regardless of when you get when you receive it or when you make them. But obviously, that comes with a little bit complexities. So as far as which one's best for you, or which one's best for business, that's going to be different for everybody. I would say, though, that for simplicity purposes, the majority of the businesses that we're talking with, is going to be on a cash basis accounting, most of those accrual basis are going to be large corporations, maybe you have a million dollars plus in revenue, they're going to just be a little bit more advanced, where they need more accurate or more information on the details of that type of activity. Now, there's also software out there, whether you're using QuickBooks Online, or Xero, or something like that, there's ways that you can bounce between the two. So you can run a cash basis report, you can run an accrual basis report. So the reason that that is available is it still if you want to invoice your customers, and you want to create bills to indicate who you owe money to, you can still do it in those accounting software, and you can still get up reporting on cash basis, even though you're creating those invoices creating those bills, but at the same time, you can toggle between the two. So, you know, I would say that majority of the people that we're working with majority of the business owner, small business owners, I always say keep it simple. Let's make this easy, let's not make this difficult. And I'm going to encourage cash basis for the majority of the time. But I will say that that's that does not mean that you don't send invoices to customers, that does not mean that you're not going to track who you owe, and when you owe it to them. Those are things you can still do even being on a cash
Collin 16:59
basis. Yeah, I think that's good to know that there is that kind of third option hanging out there that you can do a hybrid model. It's not, it's I know, whenever I first look at this, it's like, oh, there are two, I must choose to run my business this way or only this way. But when we was looking our business is going well I kind of do a little bit of both, or maybe the majority of my businesses cash by do I have some accrual stuff every now and then with how I'm how I'm invoicing or I'm being invoiced? So it is good to know that you can using a software or it's not too complicated probably just by yourself, have some idea better understanding by running it both ways.
Mike 17:31
Yeah, in really, you will have to make a choice. When you file your taxes, which one you're going to report your taxes on. Right? When you're using it for internal purposes you do you can toggle between the two. And so that's where most people we even have clients that are actually for for reporting purposes and management purposes, they may be running their books on accrual. But for simplicity, when it comes to tax time, we're running it as cash. So the the way that you do your bookkeeping on a day to day basis can be either or it's just the one that you have to actually make a decision and be consistent with it is once you do your tax return, you kind of have to choose between the two. And again, for tax purposes, more often than not, we're encouraging someone to do or clients to do cash basis accounting for their taxes, because it is simpler. That's sometimes there's gonna be scenarios where accrual might make sense. But majority of small businesses cash is totally
Collin 18:23
fine. This last year saw a lot of changes in the industry, and then the economy writ large, many small businesses and pet care was hired for the first time. What does tax season look like for somebody who's just hired? And how do they make sure that it goes smoothly for them? Yeah, so
Mike 18:42
So you know, I will say this with the assumption that if you're hiring employees, you're using some type of payroll type software. So obviously, when you bring on a worker, you can choose to pay them as a contractor, or an employee, a W two employee, and you actually don't get to choose it necessarily. But the government kind of makes that decision, or at least sets guidelines and cover what's going to direct it to that. But if you, if you have a worker that comes on, let's say they choose their own hours, they tell you what their rates going to be. They kind of control everything they just kind of subcontracted work through you, that's going to be typically what you call an independent contractor, you're not going to be when you pay them, you just send them a check, you're not taking any taxes out or doing anything like that. For those individuals, you're gonna want to make sure that you have a W nine on file for them. And then you're gonna want to make sure you send them a 1099 after the year is over. Now, those are going to be considered self employed individuals because they're not employees of yours. They're just contractors of yours. So they're going to have to handle paying the taxes on it. They're basically taking that income that you send them and they're running their own business, they're gonna have some of their own expenses, they're gonna have to pay the taxes on it. And so if you have, you know, the key distinction is first off figuring out is it an contractor, or is it an employee because that's going to be a big impact on the business decision that you make. But then once you have that figured out, then yeah, contractors, we have 79 to at the end of the year, just it's a very simple form that says how much you have paid to them. Now on the flip side employees, is there gonna be people you have more control over. And so I think this kind of more geared towards your question asked is that there's going to be an employee, they're working for you, you're controlling their hours, you decide the rate for them, you might be supplying equipment and stuff for them to do their work. Again, I'm assuming that you're using a payroll software, which I would always always recommend anyone had that has employees just pay the money to have a payroll software out there. But that payroll software is going to take care of filing your tax forms, making your tax payments, kind of doing all that activity, usually, they're going to file your W TOS which is what your employee is going to report that income on and on their return, they're gonna pretty much handle all of that for you. So not a ton changes from your standpoint, when it comes to having a year where you hire employees outside of just making sure that you have that recorded correctly, within your bookkeeping. And then alternate, you know, finally, your tax return making sure that you have that wages and salaries reported correctly on their broken out from payroll taxes versus kind of what the gross was, and things like that. So that would be kind of the caveat. Now, if you're if you ran payroll, but you haven't used a payroll company, that changes the story completely, your interview is going to be pretty hectic, it's going to be a lot of filings and is probably going to actually forms and filings and things that you might have already missed, depending on when you brought that employee on.
Collin 21:37
Well, it sounds like step one is make sure you understand the difference between an independent contractor and employee and then get software to make your life easier.
Mike 21:47
Exactly, yeah, yeah, that first one, if you're going to have employees, you know, if you've made the determination that yes, it's an employee, utilize the software out there, there's tons of them, we recommend a software called gusto. They make just payroll so much easier. And they're relatively inexpensive for really a lot of work that they're doing a lot of automation that they're doing on the back end that you don't even have to worry about. If you paint a contract, or if you say no, these I've determined and read than the rules, these are contractors, you might not need a software for that, that's a lot easier, because you're just making the payment to them. And finally, it's 1099 at year end, that's the only thing you need to do. You're not filing payroll tax forms, you're not paying taxes or anything like that. You're just making payments to the individual or company and filing 1099 a year on, let's talk about
Collin 22:30
business taxes and health insurance. I know you've actually done a really very good series on this on your own podcast, the tax savings podcast about health insurance as a small business owner. So we're coming to the end of the year. What are my options for either deductions with health insurance or getting access to that if I'm looking to lower my tax burden going into tax season?
Mike 22:55
Yeah. So you know, first off, if you're paying health insurance, you're self employed paying health insurance premiums, those are 100% deductible. And so that's one thing that I want to make obvious to you that again, if you're self employed, and you have health insurance premiums that you're paying, those are going to be 100% deductible. Assuming they're not like under a spouse's plan or something like that. They're they're part of the self employed plan. Now, how you did done to them is just going to change based on how you're operating or how you're set up. So if you're a single member, LLC, sole proprietor, a partnership, something like that, you're just going to report the self employed health insurance deduction directly on your personal tax return, it's very easy, just filing when you file your personal tax return. If you set up as an S corp, it makes things a little bit more complex. So with an S corp, you know, you're required to run payroll to yourself as an owner of the company. And so with an S corp, you're going to run that health insurance through the business, you're going to take a business deduction for that health insurance that self employed health insurance. Now, the key thing here is that whatever that amount is, you also need to add to your W two as an employee of your company. So let's say you have $10,000 in health insurance premiums, and you're self employed. If you're an S corporation, you're going to run that through the S corporation get a $10,000 deduction, then you're going to add $10,000 to your W two income for that self employed health insurance premiums, contact your payroll provider, they're going to know exactly where to add that and how to add it. And then you're going to get the deduction again on your personal tax return just like a sole proprietorship and everyone else for that $10,000. So they make you jump through hoops, you're taking a deduction, you're adding it to income, and then you're taking the deduction again, the net result is that you get a deduction for it. There's just some hoops that you have to jump through. So just kind of as a recap, sole proprietorship, single member LLC partnership, you're just taking on your personal tax return self employed health insurance deduction. With the S Corp. You have to take it as a deduction, the S corp, add your W two and then you're going to get again on your personal tax returns just another hoops to jump through. But the key thing is that if you're self employed, you're paying for health insurance premiums, they are deductible 100%. And that's a key thing to know about. Even if you don't offer them to your employees, you still have 100% deduction for it. With one caveat, if you're on one of those medi share, sharing plans, or like a Christian sharing plan, that's actually not technically considered insurance, that would not qualify. So it has to be actual actual insurance plan. You know, whether it's the marketplace or wherever it might be, it has to be an actual insurance plan, if you're on a cost sharing one or ministry sharing plan, that would not be deductible, because it's not considered actual insurance. Now, that being said, a lot of those plans are so much more reasonable in many cases, that, you know, you pay in less premiums is better than then paying more in premiums and getting a tax deduction for it. So yeah, I'm not saying you shouldn't be switching your insurance at all. I'm just saying that that's one key to consider when they are not deductible. Isn't that type of scenario?
Collin 26:04
Yeah, I know, those are increased in popularity. And it's good to know, again, that we are deducting those when they are eligible for deduction on our personal and not we can't use the business until we get to the Escort
Mike 26:15
classification. Yep, exactly. And you can actually deduct them on your business tax return for even if you're a single member or on your on your books, you can run them through your business bank account, that's fine. Whether you run through your business bank account or your personal bank accounts, it doesn't matter, it's going to get reported the same exact way on your personal tax return. The difference is that if you are an S corp, you need to run those through the S corp business return. Sure. Yeah.
Collin 26:43
And I it's one of those things of it's a necessary expense, and there are things that we can do with it to lessen our tax burden.
Mike 26:49
Yeah, exactly. You know, that's kind of the idea behind all kind of tax planning is we're gonna have the spending anyways, how can we at least get a tax deduction for that type of spending?
Collin 27:01
Well, it's speaking of that, you know, we're coming in it's it's November right now, we're moving into December pretty quickly here. Am I running out of time to make big tax moves regarding things like retirement accounts? I know some of those can be deductible, some art. What can I do if I'm a solopreneur? Single Member, LLC, or member LLC, if I'm looking at going, Oh, maybe I should do something with retirement, I'm facing maybe a tax burden, or I made a lot more than I expected this year? Can I do something with retirement or maybe investing as a way to lower my burden?
Mike 27:37
Yeah, absolutely. And so when we're talking about retirement, we always kind of bring up two different scenarios, those business owners that have no employees, or no employees outside of maybe the spouse and family members, but traditionally, no employees outside the business owners, or, and then those that have employees. And so if you have no employees, there's kind of two main retirement plans that we're going to gear towards, we're going to look at the SEP IRA. And more often than not, we're going to favor the solo 401k. And the reason behind these options is that you're able to put a portion of your your earnings away into retirement and get a deduction for them, assuming you have it in a traditional non Roth type plan. If you have employees, then we're going to be looking at a simple IRA, Safe Harbor 401k or something like that. So that's kind of its key discussion, the key distinguisher is we have employees, yes, okay, then we're going to look at a simple IRA or a safe harbor 401k as a retirement vehicle, we have no employees, now we're going to look at a SEP IRA or a solo 401k. Now with SEP IRAs and solo 401k is specifically for those with no employees, there is opportunities to fund them after the year is over. So you can make back payments on them, unless there's any kind of employer contribution. So if you're with a solo 401k, and you're going to put money into it as an employee, and then you want your employer to match that the employer portion should be made before your end, but the employer he portion can be done before you file your tax return. So there is some leeway with the solo and the SEP IRA. But you know, at the same time, a lot of times we encourage people if you have the funds just just get done before you ran it makes the accounting for it a lot easier to
Collin 29:34
also what are some of the limits on contributions of those do they have a max that I can deduct if I'm investing in them by the end of the year?
Mike 29:42
Yeah, so you know, the the solo 401k has two pieces to it, you have the employee portion, and the employer or portion, the employee portion, you can contribute up to 19,500. And so if you're running as an S corp as an example, you can contribute up to 19,500 and To that, and then your employer can match up to 25% of your W two salary. So let's say you're making $100,000 as easy numbers, you could put 19,500 of that as an employee, and then your employer which be your business could match or do a contribution of 25% of your salary or additional 25,000. In that case, you're taking 19,005 plus 25,000. The max with that type of plan is 58,000. This year, so the max you could do with a solo 401k is 58,000. With the SEP IRA, it's a little bit different. With a SEP IRA, you are allowed to contribute 20%. If you're a sole proprietorship, or a single member LLC, you can contribute up to 20% of your income. So you make $100,000, you can contribute $20,000, if you're a S corporation, you can contribute up to 25% of your income. So you take a salary of 100,000, you can contribute up to 25,000. And so the SEP IRA typically is going to be a little bit more limited, because it's a percentage of your income, where with the solo 401k, you can contribute 19,500, no matter what, as long as you have that amount of income that you can contribute to it. So it creates the ability to take a more of a deduction with a solo 401k. But again, it just depends on how much money you want to put away. If you're looking to put away $5,000, we might not look at any of these plans. And we might just look at like a traditional IRA or something like that. But if you're looking to put a lot of money into retirement, that's where we start to look at some of these other plans. Right.
Collin 31:39
Now, I am a little curious about the distinction of why there are differences and what I can use, if I have employees versus if I, I don't Is that just because of the business structure? Or is that because of income levels or things like that?
Mike 31:53
Yeah, so you technically can use all these plans with you, if you have employees, the reason that we typically if you have employees would not want to offer or would not traditionally offer a SEP IRA or solo is because if you're really trying to max out your retirement, and and so you're not you're doing a 25% match or a 20%, you know, from a SEP IRA or something like that, whatever you do for yourself, you have to offer to your employees. And so, you know, you might not want to contribute 25% of your employees, you know, all of your employees earnings into retirement plan, because that's additional costs for you as the employer. So that's why, you know, traditionally a SEP IRA solo, they're easier plans, and they allow you as the business owner to really kind of max out a retirement that you might not want to do for all of your employees necessarily. The simple IRA and the Safe Harbor 401k is when we traditionally use and we have employees, because they limit that that required employer contribution of it.
Collin 32:57
Now that makes that makes sense is just looking at again, looking at overall expenditures and what you are able to do as as a business. Yep, that makes sense. Something else that changed last year was a lot of pet sitters had to become acquainted with acquainted with sales tax. Usually services aren't taxed with a sales tax. But a lot of pet sitters started offering things like gift boxes, or selling shirts as a as an online store, or many making bandanas and selling physical goods that were now subject to this. So this may be the first year they've ever had to file taxes with that's added sales tax on top of it. So how do they get ready for that? What do they need to have on hand or be prepared for?
Mike 33:39
Yeah, sales tax is going to be tricky, because every locality every state, and then deeper down, every locality is going to be trading and sales tax have different laws and everything on that front. So when it comes to sales tax, obviously, that's going to be separate or you know, separate activity from your normal income tax returns, if you're filing your own business tax return, you don't pay sales tax on that business tax return, the sales tax piece is its own return that you might have been doing quarterly or monthly, or something like that already. So when it comes to sales tax, being that every state is different, and every locality is different. Traditionally, it's something that we don't do a ton of, we don't touch a ton of but we work with a partner. Their name is Paisner Johnson out of Texas. All they do is handle sales tax. And so traditionally, we're gonna recommend people to them because they can get a free initial consultation and say, you know, hey, here's my scenario, what do I need to know about sales tax and they can kind of be that guide to say, Okay, here's what you need to do file and here's what you don't need to do filing. They might even say, Here's where you have some liability, but you might only have $1 or $2 in sales tax. So, you know, it doesn't make sense cost wise to even do that filing, and they're going to kind of give you the details of that type of
Collin 34:55
activity. Yeah, I that that was you know, my understanding of what Well, just this hyper locality of what's required, how it's going to look for you. So it really is one of those situations of, if you're even a little bit unsure, reach out to somebody and be guided to that process, at least for those couple times that you're gonna be filing.
Mike 35:12
Yeah. And I would also say that state agencies are super helpful in this area, too. If so, many people are afraid to contact the state or contact the IRS because I feel like they're already getting it like they're being marked as a checkmark in the state's box. But these agencies are, they're humans just like us. And they really honestly just want to help people out and make sure they don't get into trouble so that they don't have to be going after people. So if you have something too, like that, you know, feel free to reach out to your state, email them, call them, they'll be able to say, yep, you have a sales tax liability here is what it is. But yeah, it's just important to and I know a lot of these, if you're using an online portal to sell these types of items. A lot of these CRMs will have a sales tax functionality built in where they have a integration with a company like tax jar who calculates and pays all your sales tax on you. So feel free to reach out to your CRM if you're using one of those or your website builder that you might be selling this activity on. Because they might be able to give you some some insights as well into, you know, kind of what your sales tax looks like.
Collin 36:18
One of the previous times that we had you on, we spent a lot of time talking about the PPL and eidl programs, and our filing responsibilities, what's kind of the status of those as a business? And what are some scenarios people may find themselves in preparing for this tax season?
Mike 36:38
Yeah, I was really hoping I never had to hear PPP, or Ei, l again, but I guess it's coming back.
36:46
I'm so sorry, I'm sorry, we can we can skip this one.
Mike 36:51
These two have just been a nightmare for accountants the past two years, because they're their new, their new type of government funding options that haven't been around before. And the rules are constantly changed. So it's just been, it's just been a quite, I'll say fun couple of years here. But two things we'll talk about them separately, the PPP is a loan that was forgivable if you qualified. And so you'd be working directly with a bank that you're working with to determine if your loan got forgiven, you're gonna work with that bank, specifically on the forgiveness of that loan. The key thing here is that if you have a loan forgiven, that's going to be added as taxable income to your business, but you still get the deduction on whatever they forgive initially. So typically, this was used for payroll or rent and things like that. So you would still get that initial tax deduction, but then when they forgive it, that's going to be an that's going to be the piece that we want to make sure that whenever you're reaching out to your accountant, that you're separating that for them. The eidl is a little bit different, the idml had two pieces to it, they had a grant, that's going to be your initial amount that they sent over to you that that was just kind of a flat amount. And that was just a grant, not necessarily a loan. And then they have the loan portion, which a lot of small businesses owners were taking out as well. So if you had the loan portion, that's just going to be treated as usual, you're going to have a loan that you're paying off, you have, you know, you have interest payments that they probably have collected on that's going to be directly with the SBA. So you're going to be making those loan payments directly to the SBA taking that interest expense, and on the interest portion of those loan loan payments, you're gonna want to make sure you have kind of distinguish idea of how much of this loan was for interest how much of the loan payments I made was for principal, the principal piece, obviously not deductible, just as when you received that loan, it wasn't income to you, but the interest portion would be deductible on
Collin 38:48
that. And that's something that again, people, it's one of the things they know, you know, if you're in those situations, you know, if you took those extensions, you know, if you've applied for these things, and now that problem is probably digging out a lot of this paperwork and blowing off the dust of those original emails, and making sure you know exactly where you stand.
Mike 39:06
Yeah, exactly, you know, and most of the PPC, there's two rounds of PPP, PPP, round one and then round two, you probably have, at least for the first round filed for forgiveness, and I can't remember if the second round, you might have filed for forgiveness already. But if those are outstanding, you haven't found for forgiveness, I would definitely reach out to the bank that you got it through, just get that done, you know, assuming that you do it is allowed to be forgiven, just get that done. So you can kind of get that off your back and not have to worry about it. And then the eidl if you have a loan out there, obviously, you're going to want to include that loan on your balance sheet of your accounting and bookkeeping. So if you have a loan, just make sure that you kind of have that record of kind of how much eidl loan did you get, you know, you probably have already started to make payments on it, but what does that look like as well and making sure you record that properly? Have you
Collin 39:56
been in touch with how long processing times have Bam, I know initially, it seemed like they were taking forever. Do you know if they're being able to be worked through the system a lot faster these days? Yeah,
Mike 40:08
I think now, you know, everyone's kind of got a system in place, the SBA sites not overloaded. So, from what I'm seeing the forgiveness on the PPPs are definitely going a lot quicker now. And it's a much easier process, it's been ironed out. But you know, there might still be banks that are a little bit slower, maybe they didn't do as many. So, you know, just kind of continue to monitor that. But I would definitely start reaching out to your banker on the forgiveness piece, just to get that out of the way. And you don't have to worry about any deadlines, you're hitting or anything like that.
Collin 40:34
Sure. No, one big business expense that I know petsitter specifically look at is is their vehicle gas and mileage. And I wanted to ask you about whether I as a business owner can buy a vehicle through my business, and then really, what the limitations are for use of that vehicle, and how I make that that work for me.
Mike 41:01
Yeah, absolutely. And this is a great opportunity to get a big deduction and to offset a bunch of your income is purchasing a vehicle and you can definitely purchase a vehicle, within your business, buy your business. The biggest thing that I always talk to clients first about my first question is, is is this 100% business vehicle or not? If it's 100% business vehicle, run it through the business, that's totally fine. You can even own it personally. And we could talk about what that looks like as far as how that works to get that deduction. If it's 100% business vehicle, having that to the business is totally fine. If you have a vehicle that's business and personal Next, we want to probably buy that one personally, and then just reimburse yourself for the business portion or get a deduction just for the business portion. Reason being is that we run it to the business but it's say 70%, business 30% Personal. Now we kind of have to back out that personal activity from that vehicle in that just can be a little bit more complex, a little bit more cloudy than just say reimbursing yourself for the business portion of that vehicle. When we have a vehicle, we really have two options on how we record the expenses for it. We have the mileage deduction, which is just simply you take whatever your business mileage is, and you get the mileage deduction, right for that. Very simple, very easy, just making sure you're tracking everything. If you're in the mileage you can have on it personally, it doesn't matter, you're just going to get that mileage deduction as a reimbursement. If you use the actual method, now we're taking, okay, what you know, what is the maintenance on this? What is the full gas price on this? What is interest on the loan, you're taking depreciation for the vehicle, and so you're going through a lot of more steps when you look at it through this method. But sometimes you're gonna get a bigger deduction, depending on what type of vehicle you have, what's the age of the vehicle, how many miles you're putting on? So that's really kind of determinations First, decide, am I just going to do mileage on that? This is simple. This is easy, it's a flat rate, or am I going to do actual on this, I'm going to record every single expense related to this vehicle and then take my business portion on that. Traditionally, for people that are running high miles, and this is just kind of a general rule of thumb, if you have a lot of miles, mileage over the long run is probably going to give you a better deduction. But if you have a super expensive car, that's going to change the theory on that a little bit potentially.
Collin 43:22
Yeah, I can imagine different scenarios with with pet sitters and how they're running an operating their business. I know some go around, and they have vans that they collect dogs in to go take on group walks or go transport them around. That sounds like a scenario where actually purchasing that that vehicle that set up for that very specific situation, run that through the business to have it buy it, versus somebody who's just driving their car from place to place and also stopping for lunch and going to pick up kids and using it for family things. That would not be a good situation is what I'm understanding here to run to have the business buy that particular vehicle.
Mike 43:58
Exactly. You know, typically, I would say you if you have a business and personal mixed vehicle, you're better off owning it personal and taking the reimbursement for the business use of that vehicle. If it's 100% business use, then you're fine run it to the business. And that makes it easier enough for you. Sure. The other key thing about vehicle which kind of plays with a home office is that you know, traditionally if you go from your home to a place of of work. So let's say you go from your home to an office or your home to a client that's considered to commute because you're commuting to where you're working to. That is not the ductable business mileage. But the beauty behind pairing mileage or vehicle expenses with the home office is now your commute is from your bedroom to your home office. And anytime you leave your house for business related items, you're going from an office to another office or an office to a client. Now that is deductible mileage. So a lot of people say well, I don't want to take the home office. It's not that big of a deduction. I feel Like it's it's risky, which it's not, by the way, but I feel like it's risky. So I'm not going to take it. But then when I say that I'm like, Well, we're the home office might be a small deduction, but it's it can be a decent deduction. But by not having a home office, we're also missing out on some mileage because now we're gonna have more commuting mileage than, say deductible business miles.
Collin 45:19
And that's really key is whenever we look at the holistic approach here of how we're actually operating and really optimizing these these tax advantages, that's where you see a lot of payoff in in compounding of benefit to you and your business.
Mike 45:35
Yeah, absolutely.
Collin 45:38
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Mike 46:53
Yeah, that's a great question. And in funny because I just went through this with, with my father in law that he bought a vehicle for his business. If you buy the vehicle through the business via the business title is titled to the business, the insurance will have to be titled by the business, which means you're going to have a commercial type insurance policy for that vehicle. If you buy it personally, you can obviously put it on your personal insurance. So a lot of times, even if it's 100% business use, we'll see clients that purchase everything personally. And then they just reimburse themselves from the business through an accountable plan for the business use of that vehicle. Even if it's 100% other clients of saying you know that insurance, if I had to pay a little bit more in insurance, that's still a business deduction, that additional amount you pay insurance is a business deduction. So if I have to pay a little bit more insurance, just to kind of do it, make it make my life simple, I'm going to do that. And obviously I get a deduction for that, too. So I would always recommend before you purchase that vehicle, maybe run some quotes on the business versus personal to see if you can just kind of decide oh, yeah, this makes sense. Or if it's vastly different than you might want to kind of revisit that and be like, okay, maybe I should do this personally, because it is different. Sometimes it's very little difference. Sometimes it's more kind of just depends on your industry type of vehicle you have and things like that. But the key thing to think about there is that if it's titled in the business, insurance is what the business, I see.
Collin 48:20
You know, it was something that you've talked a lot about throughout our entire discussion is looking at whether you can run it through the business first or do personal and then being reimbursed to the business to take that deduction. In general, do you have a philosophy or an approach where you typically like one method over the other, you know, seeing the business, try and cover all the costs and not touch the personal account? Versus the the the method of having the personal account absorb? You know, pay some of the things and being reimbursed through the business? Do you feel like one is better or worse than the other? Or is it really just truly situational and independent on everybody's case?
Mike 48:56
Yeah, so what we typically say as a general guideline is if it's 100%, Business, run it to the business, and this is just going for, like any type of expense, not just vehicles are a little bit different, because you have that insurance just that pops in there. To complicate a little bit. Let's just look at spending overall, if it's 100% business, run that through the business bank account, that's very easy. If it's business and personal mix, traditionally, we're gonna say, run it personally, and reimburse yourself for the business portion. So as an example, this might be a home office, you know, your home office might be 100 square feet out of 1000 square feet. So we're gonna run that personally, but we're gonna get reimbursed from the business for the for the business person, purpose of it, a cell phone bill, maybe you have a cell phone bill, it's not 100% business, we're gonna say let's run that through your personal account, but let's reimburse or use at least a portion of that as a business expense. And so that's kind of the theory that we use 100% business, run that through the business bank account, business and personal mix. Typically when I say let's run that personally, unless reimburse ourselves for the business portion of that.
Collin 50:04
You know, we started off talking about some big changes or something new for this tax season. I wanted to get your, your your thoughts on deductions that either you love to see people take, or maybe a lot of people miss and take advantage of, for for
Mike 50:22
their business. Yeah, this is one topic that I'm very passionate about. When we talk about tax savings, most of my most of the most of my passion is saying, How can I inform business owners of the tax saving potential that is out there to make sure that they pay the least amount of taxes legally possible. So many business owners thinks tax savings are for millionaires, completely untrue, majority of tax savings that millionaires are using, someone making $20,000 a year could implement now, of course, there's some advanced tax plan, there's some crazy stuff out there that more wealthy individuals might be using. But some of the core fundamental tax saving strategies can be used at any income level. And one that is extremely simple, extremely easy to understand extremely safe. But I see people look over and forget about most often is maximizing adoptions. So the best way that I can say this is it, the best way I can describe this is to think about after tax dollars and pre tax dollars. So the best example of this is, let's say you're a W two employee, you work for somebody else, you make a gross amount of wages, they take all these taxes out, and you get a check with whatever's left after taxes are taken out. That's called after tax dollars. So now you take that after tax dollars, you go and buy various different things you pay for your living and everything else. That's all spending that's been done after the funds have already been taxed. As a business owner, we get our sales, our revenue from our business, we have all these expenses that we put into our business, and whatever's left over is what we get taxed on. And so I always want to be encouraging business owners to think about, what are we doing with our everyday spending? How can we move some of that spending that we're going to do no matter what into find a business purpose for it moving into the business, in now turn an after tax dollar into a pre tax dollar. And this is where we start to get creative. This is where we want to be thinking about these types of items. A lot of times I look at this, this could be things like hiring your kids and your business, you're going to be paying for basketball camps, you're going to be paying for these various things for your for your children anyways, what if you could find a way to hire them in your business, pay them a reasonable rate for some work that they can do within your business. Now you're going to get a business deduction for that basketball camp. Now, not necessarily that basketball camp, but you're going to you're going to get a business deduction, because you're hiring your kids and your business. And then your kids can go pay for the basketball camp, if that's what you choose to have them do. But it's just this idea of how can I take this after tax spending this money that I'm going to spend anyways, and moving it into pre tax spending, where I can get a business deduction for this. A good example of that I always use in this scenario is to think about and help help understand how this works, is let's say you're a W two employee, and COVID hit and you were working in an office, now you're working from home, in order to work from home, you had to go and buy a desk, you're going to have some home office space, you're going to have internet that you're using from your home, you can have all these added expenses that you're going to have to pay out. Now you get no deduction for that, because you're a W two employee, as a business owner, it's a flip, that's the opposite of that. We get we working from an office, now we're coming from we're working from home, we go out and buy a desk, that's a business deduction, we have we're using some of the internet or a portion that internet's can be a business interruption, we have the ability to take some of that spending that we're going to do anyways, and move it into a business expense. So the best thing I can do before your end is to have people think about this, go through some of the spending that you've done on the personal side and say, can I find a business purpose for this? Is there some business activity that this was related to? In How do I get a business deduction for this, maybe went out to eat with a friend. And that friend, we talked about business, that friend maybe is a client of ours, that friend maybe is an employee of ours? Well, how can we talk about business and make that a business meeting and get a business deduction for that meal that we might have done anyways, but now we're kind of intertwine our business into this. So that's one area when I was looking at small business owners, this is one of the most missed areas because it's almost too simple. But every little deduction starts to add up. I just want to encourage people that you're a business owner, you there's the tax law was written the way it was. It's your opportunity to utilize that to your advantage and to take a deduction for what is rightfully yours. And I
Collin 54:54
think again, what's so powerful about that is that these are expenses that you are doing anyway and in To know that, okay, I might not get the full deduction, like, you know, for a cell phone bill or for my internet, but at least it's a partial deduction, at least it's something that I'm adding. And again, when we look at our life and small business owners where we are, have these expenses, and especially when it's a mixed use, you are still able to get that deduction for business. And by missing that, you know, it's like, oh, well, it might be only be $50, or whatever. But that adds up when you think about each of these little purchases or things that we make throughout the entire year.
Mike 55:27
That's exactly right. In that that's a key distinction that you mentioned there is that when we talk about maximizing deductions, we're not saying, Go out and buy a bunch of stuff that you don't need just to get a tax deduction. Yeah, I would never advise someone to do that. Because you're spending money on stuff you don't need. So sure you get a tax deduction. But you lost all that money. And now you have a product or something that you don't actually need. So that would never be advice that I would give. But the idea behind this is, let's look at that spending that we're going to do anyways, how can we find that business purpose for and at least get it was not 100%? A get a portion? Business use deduction? Again, lowering our tax liability. That's why you know, anybody that talked to you, they say, you know, I am a W two employee, how do I save taxes, start a business, find a way to start a business, this one, we're talking about a start a business, this doesn't have to be a million dollar business, you can have a $10,000 a year business, a $20,000 your business, but think about the door that opens up by having that business. Now we have some of your home office, or your cell phone bill, part of your internet, some furniture that you might have in your home office, now we're creating all those business deductions so that $10,000 at $20,000 of income that you have from your business, is actually gonna be a lot less because we're taking deductions on stuff that we normally couldn't have done without being a business owner. So always take advantage of being a business owner, take advantage of the way the law is written in the opportunities that you have available to you. But again, with caution, don't be greedy. Don't try to deduct 100% of your of your home, because you say I work from every area of my home, that stuff that's not going to be allowed. So it's taking this type of thing, being creative, being aggressive with it, but also not crossing that line.
Collin 57:12
Well, and that's that's absolutely great advice, Mike. It has been yet again, a wonderful pleasure to talk with you about taxes as a topic that again, a lot of people's eyes kind of roll in the back of their head. But when we start digging into these little things, and looking at how we're maximizing it, we really do see that power and that advantage. I know everybody's situation is unique. And there's so much more and complexity that goes into this. So how can people get in touch with you follow your podcast? And where can they connect with you on social media?
Mike 57:42
Yes, you can go to small business tax savings podcast, that's our podcast on any podcasting platform that you utilize. You can also find us directly on our website at tax savings podcast.com. If you type in tax savings podcast, small business tax savings podcast on any social media, you'll be able to find us there as well. We also have a new tax minimization program, where we kind of deep dive into all these different tax strategies, we call it kind of an accountant in your back pocket where you have unlimited access to our team to ask those general accounting or tax questions, you can find that directly on our tax savings podcast website, which is tax savings podcast.com. So you can find us all there. Obviously, we do weekly episodes on our podcast, where we're talking about specific tax strategies. And it's just a great area to even if you're just getting started, go back to some of our previous episodes, find a topic that makes sense for you, and just dive into it. Because there's a lot of good golden nuggets that can help you make sure that you're saving taxes, even yet this year, there's still time available to take advantage of these things.
Collin 58:44
Absolutely. And I'll pitch it, you can join your Facebook group as well. It's not petsitting specific, but there's so many great things in there, that people throw out ideas and really just gets you thinking about how to use your business the most effectively and get advantage of that come tax time. Yeah, that's a great
Mike 59:01
idea. Cullen, you can find that on our website. Or if you just go into Facebook and type in small business tax secrets, it will pop up as a Facebook group that you can join as well.
Collin 59:09
Perfect. And I will have links to all that in your past episodes with us and directly to your podcast as well. Mike, as always, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Mike 59:17
Yeah, Colin, thanks for having me. And hopefully everyone can start paying less in taxes. Now, as we close
Collin 59:23
out 2021 right now is more important than ever to make sure that your business is actually working for you. It does that by a allowing you to feel fulfilled and to be investing in something and living out your passion through the work that you do every day. That secondly, does that by earning you money in return for working that passion. And thirdly, it needs to be saving you money on things that you're spending, whether that's for your personal or for your business. So as Mike suggested, take a moment take a couple of days to parse through everything that you spent money on this You're both in your personal and in your business and really do a line item assessment of where that money should have come from. If it was personal, but it could be used for business, consider using it as a deduction and getting some money back for that. Or maybe fast forward to next year. And make sure that those expenses are directly coming out of the business. If it's being used for that. Simple steps like that, save you money, save you a tax burden, and make sure that you are working efficiently and effectively in your business. That's something we all want. We all want something to be simple, and not a total monstrosity of complexity. There are a ton of links in this week's show notes from everything that Mike and I discussed, including some bonus blogs that he has included for us. So check out the links in your app that you're listening on. Or go to petsitter confessional comm slash episodes, slash 234 and get more extended notes there as well. We want to thank our sponsors, time to vet and pet sitters international for sponsoring today's show and making it possible for us to bring these kinds of interviews to you and we really want to thank you for listening for contributing for giving your support and feedback and everything that you do. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and a very happy Thanksgiving from Megan and I will talk to you soon
