258: Working at the Pace of Dog with Jen Walmsley
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Summary:
What does it mean to actively help our clients and their pets reach their ideals? Jen Walmsley is a trainer and dog walker in Bedford and operates Fetch Club, with a mission to provide top quality mental and physical stimulation to her clients. She shares how the growth of her business helped her be more creative and why hiring was so important to her. We also discuss what it means to focus on training fundamentals and how she makes her group walks function. Jen gives some awesome advice on what it means to learn from your mistakes, and dog behavior tips we should all know.
Topics on this episode:
Group walk dynamics
Off-lead routine
Being active in your client’s care
Mistakes are ok!
Avoiding burnout
Main take away? By being pro-active in our care and services, we set our clients up for success.
About our guest:
Jen is a dog trainer and dog walker based in Bedford, England. Training wise, she specialises in behaviour, obedience and house training, but enjoys trick training with her own dog Red who is a Belgian Malinois.
Jen created her business, Fetch Club, almost 3 years ago with a view to offering pack walks with an element of training as she felt that’s what her own dog would thrive on. Business really took off after about 1 year and as the pack sizes grew to 8 dogs on a walk, the company grew too with the business securing a second vehicle and multiple staff members. Jen also started offering training and began to build a buzz and community in her town after seeing lots of success with clients. Jen has big plans for the future and is constantly excited about what’s next for the business!
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
dog, people, clients, work, walks, hiring, pet, day, bit, mistakes, business, pack, training, puppy, leash, service, absolutely, owner, person, dog walkers
SPEAKERS
Jen W., Collin
Collin 00:10
Hello, I'm Meghan I'm Collin and this is Pet Sitter confessional an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet and pet sitters International. As pet care professionals, one of our goals in business is to make sure that the dogs and their owners are achieving their best possible and that they are bonding and that they have good emotional and mental stimulation throughout their life. How do we actually do that, though? What does it look like to implement practices to make sure that that's possible? Today, we're really excited to have Jen Walmsley owner of fetch club on to talk about her journey into pet care, and how she makes sure that her clients are getting exactly what they need. Let's get started. Hi, Collin.
Jen W. 00:51
Thank you so much for having me. Yes, hello, I am Jen. I am owner of a dog training and dog walking company called Fetch club. I'm based in Bedford which is in England. And my company operates pack walks on the weekdays. And then I do behavioral and some puppy training stuff around the edges of the pack box.
Collin 01:11
Now you only do weekday services. Is that something you started off doing? Or did you move to more five day business?
Jen W. 01:20
Yeah, I always started doing weekday stuff. I actually don't get that many requests for weekend walks. So I guess I'm kind of lucky in that way. Occasionally, I do bits of training on the weekends. But I try really hard not to otherwise I will. I will never have a life. I don't really have one now, but I will never have a live for as well. So
Collin 01:44
yeah, I know you've been you've been doing fetch club for for coming on on three years now. What have you started what what changed three years ago for you.
Jen W. 01:54
So I guess it was actually my own dog. That led me down the path of working with dogs. So about three and a half years ago, just over my partner convinced me that we should get a Belgian Malinois puppy. which for those of you who don't know, it's a high drive dog, it's typically suited to working jobs in like the military or the police, and not very well suited to first time dog owners. So to be honest, that was a sink or swim moment for me. And I kind of went the way of really getting my teeth into it. He was a lot to handle, I made loads of mistakes. And at a certain point, I found myself really obsessing with trying to understand him and dog behavior and how to help them. And then people kept saying to me, you should work with dogs, you should work with dogs. And I was like, No, that's crazy. And then eventually, I started my, my dog walking company. I wanted to go into training eventually. But I recognized that I needed some hands on experience. And so I just started out observing their body language, and trying to learn from them. And then about a year and a half into the dog walking business. Having started I started doing the training as well. And it's to be honest, it's just snowballed from there.
Collin 03:24
What kind of training services do you offer?
Jen W. 03:27
It's really all behavioral. And then a bit of puppy stuff as well. I don't do anything specialized in terms of gundog training or bite work or anything like that. I don't know enough about that. So it's, it's really just like, do a lot of stuff with free activity, and anxious dogs. And then the kind of basic obedience like walking nicely on a leash, really cool, etc.
Collin 03:50
We got a lot of, of basics, but really, its fundamentals to having a dog and being well integrated into a family or household setting.
Jen W. 04:00
Yeah, so usually, it's the loose leash walking and recall that I get most of my inquiries about, but I'm kind of building up a bit of a reputation at the moment for working with reactive dogs. So I'm also getting a lot of inquiries about that, as well.
Collin 04:13
Now, you mentioned when you were working with your own dog, that you made a lot of mistakes, and I feel like many many owners have that same feeling. And so when you're working with somebody, how do you approach that? How do you talk about the topic of making mistakes and going easy on yourself?
Jen W. 04:36
Sure, I mean, I find dog training to be a very emotional thing. It's quite common that clients will cry. Because it's something that is so personal to them and you know, is their pet is their family member. They care so much and they feel so much of their dogs behaviors is their kind of personal responsibility. though, that's kind of my approach is I tried to connect with them on an emotional level. Because I've been through a lot of what they're going through, I can tap into their feelings. So when I say something like, you know, I understand when your dog is being reactive, it can feel really embarrassing. And they're like, oh, yeah, I feel so embarrassed, you know, my dogs barking or pulling on the leash or whatever. And it's like, it's not that I'm reading their minds. It's just, I know, who's been there. So it kind of helps me to connect with them. In that way through having you know, these these experiences was my own dog, because he was really, really reactive by about eight months old, he was a real mess.
Collin 05:45
I think we often forget about that emotional side that clients are going through, I think we typically may focus on Oh, they love their dogs, so they want to cared for. But I love how you even talked about that people can feel embarrassed, they can feel angry about things, they start to feel self conscious, they can doubt being a pet parent, and whether they're doing something right or wrong. I agree that it's really important to approach it with a level of humility, understanding and gentleness, when are you talking about these things? Because people do get it, they get hurt, and they get concerned about what's going on. And so to be able to talk with them about those, those situations and those concerns that they have in a very, you know, calm manner, I'm sure that this just really helps people these feel, feel seen and heard.
Jen W. 06:31
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, ultimately, that has an effect on how successful you are as a dog trainer, because if your client doesn't feel like they can connect with you, they're probably not going to do the homework. Whereas if they're like, Oh, she really gets me. Then they're like, you know, they feel passionate about it. And they feel understood in a situation where maybe a lot of the time they actually feel judged. So I think, I think for me, that's something that I've kind of tapped into, and I guess it's something that I before I became a trainer was looking for in other trainers that I worked with, and maybe didn't didn't find so much was somebody who could just act like they understood what I was going through. Yeah,
Collin 07:15
yeah, we're, it's, we're a people business as much or if not more so than we are a dog business or a pet business. And we do lose sight of that through the the day to day operations, but doing the kind of training that you're doing, and that really puts it front and center to remember like, Okay, I'm training this person, really, to help their dog I'm partnering with them, to have them give the best outcome that they want.
Jen W. 07:39
Absolutely. That's something that I talk about a lot on my social media is I'm not, I like people. I didn't get into working with dogs because I didn't like people. That's a bit of a thing that you hear a lot in the pet industry is I like dogs more than I like people. I hate that. I really hate that. Because yeah, the dogs actually don't pay you, your clients do. And it's kind of disrespectful, really. When I see people put that on their social media, like, Wow, your clients have feelings to you just tell them all you don't like them. So really, for me, that was something major to tap into is, is treating people like they are relevant and like their feelings matter. And it's not just about the dogs.
Collin 08:27
Yeah. Well, with the dogs, I know you also do, you do the training, and then you you really are doing a lot of pack walks. So I'd love to know how you make the pack locks work and how those are structured. Yeah, sure.
Jen W. 08:41
So my business started with the pack walks. In my opinion, it's the most financially viable way to run a dog walking business. The way that my company operates as I will run to pack forks per day, per member of staff that I have. So I have two members of staff at the moment who do some pet walks for me in the week and on the days that they're working, they do two individual walks themselves. I am insured to walk up to eight dogs per person, which is a lot. That's really low. So I started out with insurance for six and then as I felt that my capacity to handle a little dogs grew, I upped my insurance to eight. Generally my staff will walk kind of maximum six and so me or one of my staff will pick up and drop off all the dogs in one of our vans, which is fitted with high end crates and a walk some sounds like it's a very structured, which isn't really typical of most dog walkers in the UK. But I think that's just my style because I've got such an interest in training We practice a lot of loose leash walking, impulse control sit stays recall, that kind of thing, I don't mind a little bit of play, but I think when you have a large pack of dogs that can get really easily out of hand, you know, with like a awfully dogs and then we're like it's like, so I put a cap on how silly they get. And instead, I kind of reel them back in, put some focus back on some more productive behaviors. Which is nice, actually, because then the clients actually quite quickly notice when their dog starts with pet walks, they notice a positive difference in the dog's behavior with them as well,
Collin 10:41
when you say that it's not all that common for having a very structured where you're incorporating these training aspects during during your walks, what is more of the the walking culture for dogs in the
Jen W. 10:53
UK. I mean, it's generally pick all the dogs up, go to a field somewhere, open the van, you may or may not bother with using leads at this point, please just search. And, you know, see you see you at the end of the hour, and it's just kind of like a free for all. For me, it's just I find that to be really unsafe, you know. And also, I don't think it's that beneficial for dogs behavior. So something that I see in a lot of training clients is dogs that are frustrated greeters, so they see another dog, and they are really, really excited, and they want to go and play with the dog, but they're on the leash. And so they have all this frustration. And it's because the value of the dogs in their mind is so high that all they're saying is playmate and they cannot regain focus on their owner. And that's come from somewhere. So usually that will have started in early puppyhood, when they go to puppy, playdates and things like that. But also that can be reinforced with a dog walker, so so going out and you know, five days a week, and they are playing with other dogs for an hour every day, then that is setting them up to believe other dogs are really, really, really fun. You get to play with all of them. Every time you see one. It's playtime. And then, you know, the poor owner tries to walk the dog on a leash and has a really hard time.
Collin 12:22
Yeah, it really is looking at that that dog's lifestyle, like there exists more to this dog than just the time that they're in front of me. And how am I equipping them to go back to their owner and be better than when they came to me? And really, really giving them those those skills. And we see that I see that a lot too, with dogs that come to pay for daycare, or maybe they have a sibling at home where there's no they've never had structure or really learned how to regulate themselves and really be be a dog if they've never had cap or or pushback on how their behavior and you really do we get calls from people who are like, my dog's out of control. And, you know, having you kind of outline that you really do see, this dog was never really set up for success in these situations. And so we've got to peel back a lot of this stuff to move forward.
Jen W. 13:13
Yeah, absolutely. And I guess was my dog is probably the reason I started the business was always like, how is anyone ever going to take care of this monster? I bet into it, I bet a center of business to do it, because no one else is gonna do it, right. But some of the thought process in my mind behind that was I would hate the idea of my dog who is now highly trained, going out with somebody else, and then undoing all of my hard work because they are, you know, having him play too much. And he's lost focus on his handler and that kind of stuff. So it'd be my kind of worst nightmare to do that to somebody else. I guess that's the idea behind it anyway.
Collin 13:58
Yeah. And I think I think many people and I think that's a really good approach to, to at least communicate to our clients about more than what the service is about getting out energy or just beyond socializing. Like there's a lot of community aspect that goes into this dog whenever they're in these situations, and then you with your training background and the people that you have, being able to provide those dogs with skills. Do you find that clients immediately understand all of the benefits? Or is it kind of an overtime thing that they start to see these things?
Jen W. 14:35
It depends on the client and how they found me. So sometimes I'll get people who don't really realize exactly what I am and they kind of just fall into my lap. And then they go wow, okay, this is this is amazing. Occasionally, it doesn't quite work for the client and the I think they're just looking for that, that run around service and such That's fine, because there are, there are plenty of people around me that offer that kind of a service when they go elsewhere. And then some people really specifically choose me because they like the structure, they like the idea of their dog learning to socialize in a more polite way with other dogs. So it's a bit of a mix, really.
Collin 15:20
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Collin 15:41
if you were looking for new petsitting software, give time to pet a try listeners of our show save 50% off your first three months by visiting time to pet.com. Forward slash confessional. Yeah, and I knowing that people are going to find what they're looking for eventually. But then on the business side, you know, we do have to kind of cultivate, we talked about culture a lot of times and we have culture with ourselves or with our staff, but we also have culture that with with our, with our clients that we have to work on, how do you build and cultivate a clientele that works with you, and that actually sees the benefit that they're getting,
Jen W. 16:19
I use a an app that has a reporting service. So after every walk, they will get a report. And in that I am really honest with my client. So if their dog's recall, was really bad that day, they're going to know about it, if their dog was excellent, I'm going to tell them about it, you know, I'm going to tell them about all the little wins, and the times when it isn't so good. And over time, what's happened is I like you say I've kind of cultivated this client base that are really grateful for that feedback. So you know, certain clients go, okay, all right, I really want to work on the recall for a bit. So thank you for telling me. And it's just something that they've kind of come to expect. And it's that, that kind of mutual respect there of they know that I'm going to be honest with them. And then they appreciate the service in that way. And I think that anybody that doesn't like I say anybody that doesn't really want that, and a dog walking service, kind of just go and find that elsewhere. And that's fine for me, because I want a client base that can can move with me and understand where I'm coming from when I say hey, your dog needs a bit of work on that loose leash, leash, I will never say, Never say
Collin 17:40
you could we absolve you to say lead, you can do that.
Jen W. 17:44
Thank you. Oh, my God. Oh, gee, okay. All right. Well, this lead, okay.
Collin Funkhouser 17:53
Yeah, and I, it's a reminder to think about that a lot of like, it's really does start with me, and how we operate our business and then sticking to that, and then the clients that see that are going to stick around, the clients that want something else are going to leave. And that's perfectly fine. It's okay when somebody leaves you because they're looking for something different. Because then that means you're running your business and you're not letting other people run it. And I love that thought of cultivating those people who use your services, because you're investing back in them as you do with giving them reports and information and really partnering with them, and allowing them to grow and allow their pups to grow along with you.
Jen W. 18:34
Exactly. And you know, people that don't really gel with you, when it feels like a struggle, they're not really supposed to be your client. And ultimately, all that will lead to is you fretting and worrying about am I doing a good enough job for this person, when actually neither of you is really that happy. And that could be a space that somebody who desperately wants your service could be taking up. So for me, I guess, you know, I'm always three years into my business. Now we're year one, I would have been like, No, give me all of them. But now I'm very lucky that I can say okay, if I lose a client because they're not quite the right fit, that's okay. Because I know that at some point, that's what will be filled with a client who absolutely loves what I do. And it's just having that faith enough to see that through I guess.
Collin 19:25
Have you ever had to let a client go because of other their dog wasn't, you know, integrating into the path that you're taking out there or because they had different expectations?
Jen W. 19:37
Yes. So horrible. Yeah, so less. It's the worst thing about having a business as firing people. But it has to be done. You know, especially when you have a pack walk. Sometimes it might jeopardize the safety of you know, either the other dogs or Have me. And I can't, I can't have that, like I, I can't risk, for example being injured because then I can't work. And I'm gonna work and I can't pay the bills. So it's really uncomfortable. And in my experience, they cry, which is really, really unclassified to do it people's faces. I don't love doing it over like a message or something like that. It's so uncomfortable, but it's just part and parcel of having a business.
Collin 20:35
Yeah, it is not fun at all, we've had to let go of a few over the years, and it's mostly always been around around safety concerns. And in generally, clients understand that, sometimes it's hard for them to convince it because it is kind of the isn't their kid. And it's the, well, you know, Johnny just does not like that whenever he's at home. And so, no, every now and then you get a little bit of pushback, because you're telling them something that they either don't see you have experience with, or, or might not fully comprehend or understand the extent to which it could be dangerous. But at the end of the day, it's, you know, these are the facts, these are my lines in the sand, and this is how we're going to move forward. And you've it's really it is tough, it is hard because you know, people, you know, they love their dogs, they generally love them love your service. But if the dogs not working out, you know, that's, that's something that you have definitely have to stand up for.
Jen W. 21:30
Right. And even sometimes, it's a case of advocating for that dog. So where the client is going, I really want this service. And for whatever reason the dog isn't getting on with it. I have to kind of say, I think actually, it's in the best interest of the dog. I don't think that this is suited to the dog. I think they will be better suited to you know, say the walker or whatever. Which is hard. But in some ways, it's kind of it's kind of easier, because that should always be the priority, right? It's the safety of the dogs. Yeah. Yeah, we
Collin 22:07
had somebody reached out to us recently, who had a dog who had never been socialized who had their family had gone through a divorce. So the entire world with his dog was completely blown up. And with the dogs actually being like major reactive towards absolutely everybody Oh, this being coming a really behavioral concern for the dog and the family. And they were like, Oh, can you come over and take them on a walk? And we're like, No, we need to, you know, work with one of these three trainers that we recommend in the area, and then we'll come partner with you. But we've got to do address this other stuff, because a walk isn't really going to address your concerns. And it's putting us at the danger and the dogs not going to enjoy it either.
Jen W. 22:51
Right, exactly. And ultimately, when you're walking, that's not the time to be training, like, Yeah, I did training bits within the pet Hawks. And I love that and the dogs enjoy it. But this is not the time for this particular dog to have a training session. They say things don't really go together. So you either need to say, you know, let's have a training session. But right now the Blackhawks aren't the solution or the you know, the solos aren't the solution. Effectively. It's just kind of a bandaid.
Collin 23:20
Yeah, yeah, it's not the magic bullet and trying to explain that to people sometimes. You know, a few people get it pretty quickly. And other people are like, well, but you know, he'll get his energy out, and then he'll be fine. It's like, no, there's a lot, a lot more going on here than just a little bit of extra energy.
Jen W. 23:35
All right, exactly. Okay, he'll be tired. But then tomorrow, he'll do the same thing. The dog needs help.
Collin 23:40
And we've talked a little bit about, you know, dogs and reasons that you've had to let them go. I'd like to know your process for bringing a new dog and new client into an existing pack. How do you make that work? And do those introductions and make sure they work well together?
Jen W. 23:55
Yeah. Okay. That's such a great question. So I normally will start well, it's kind of mandatory to start with a solo walk so that I can get to know the dog on a one to one basis. You know, without the owner there as well. And just sometimes, I guess the the owner can influence the dog's behavior also.
Collin 24:21
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Jen W. 24:23
You know, that sometimes crazy with the owner and actually really well behaved without them. Or the other way around, who knows? For Yeah, so I, you know, I take them on a walk, I have a chance to get to know them. And on that walk, I'll test things like how well they're walking on a leash or how responsive they are to training bits, which will then eventually feed into their recall. And if I think the dog isn't quite ready for the pack walks, but they have potential, and then I will insist on having a few more solo walks before they come into the packs, which to be honest, from a business standpoint is The most financially viable thing to do, but I like to look at the PAC walk clients as a bit of an investment, like you put the time into them. And they will be a long term repeat customer. So that they I don't rush, really, I to add to that the pace of the dog. And then once I'm kind of happy with where they're at, on the seller walks, I'll bring them into the pack. They all will walk together on leash for a while. And the new dog won't come off the leash until I'm confident with their recall. Something that for me is a real giveaway with that as if they're showing far too much focus on the other dogs, and won't refocus on me. And I know that they kind of have to stay on the leash for longer. Because if they're not focusing on me when they're on leash, and they're definitely not going to focus on me when they're all Yeah, they are not calling back. So, yeah, but to be honest, I guess I'm at a point now where having, like, when I started, I would have my partner come, and I would walk kind of parallel, and gradually close that gap. And then the dog would kind of merge into the pack like that. Whereas now, I set up expectations for every dog that comes in. And so the dogs who already in the pack walks, know their routine, they know that we start with loose leash, they know that we then do six days, they know that then they get their play, and they recall and all those kinds of bits. And so when you have a new door come into that it's like they all socially reference. And it's actually quite easy for them to fall in line with that.
Collin 26:44
Yeah, it's I love seeing a new dog assimilate into that group as quickly as they do when we have when we do some small daycares. Or when we do some get togethers, it's like, these are the dogs who have been with us and we've worked with for a really long time, and the new new dog comes in and you will socially reference looking to them for the cues. And then you know, just a matter of moments or you know, a couple a couple visits, they really do fall in line. And so, you know, viewing the the pack that the existing back that you have as an investment for the long term really does pay out because it makes every new addition a lot easier to get on board and start that process with
Jen W. 27:23
them. Absolutely. And funnily enough, my ex reactive dog is my best assistant and all of that, because he is such an amazing teaching dog. He just he just gets it. And so when we have a new document of the pack, you'll He'll guide them. And if they start being too silly, he'll tell them off a little bit, but always in a way that's you know, very fair and measured. And it took some time for me to put some trust in him with that because obviously he was reactive at one point. But you know, he speaks dog better than I can speak dog. It's amazing. It's amazing to watch him. And they're all like okay, that the okay will behave. We're gonna be good dogs today. Because he's, yeah.
Collin 28:08
We have that with with our own dog, Kobe, he is just amazing to watch and see how he interacts. And it's helped us learn a lot to have going, Oh, that's how he corrected that behavior. Or man see how he let the dog do this, but not this. So kind of seeing everybody's boundaries to work together, you really do get a sense for each individual dog's personality and kind of what's going to make a good group. Yeah, it's the
Jen W. 28:35
very best way to learn about dogs is to watch a pack of them.
Collin 28:39
So what are some of your big takeaways from now running pack box now for coming up on three years of, of dog behavior dog language that you think more people need to know about?
Jen W. 28:50
I think a lot of people have very scared of any kind of correction. So, you know, like a bit of a bit praise or a bit of a bar or something like that. I think, I guess society could do with understanding that that actually is how dogs communicate. And they don't really miss you know, so if they wanted to bite each other, if they wanted to destroy each other, they would. But that's just how they communicate, you know, the bark, the smile, the growl, that's their way of saying like, back off, you're too close, or whatever that is and I think I think so it is far too fast to label those dogs as bad dogs when actually they're, they're kind of excellent teaching dogs and as long as they're, you know, fair and just about the reason for doing it in the first place. So I think that and then I guess the other way, is that there's so many dogs that I see that are way too much, you know, so over friendly and blue Lots of people will deem that dog as being a really good dog is really good with other dogs. And it's like it's really bouncing up and all their faces and being told off left, right and center and not taking any warnings from any of the other dogs and just, you know, continuing to go. And I think body language wise, again, society could really do with learning that that's actually very, very rude. And dog language
Collin 30:24
that is, is very difficult to communicate to an owner because owners love when their dog is all over. But a lot of our owners love when their dog is all over them and jumping around and super excited when they're there and trying to help them understand and go oh, that's that's not that's actually not dog language. That's, that's appropriate for other dogs. And that could put that dog in serious risk if if they try and do that to another dog who has much broader boundaries, let's say where that correction really needs to be over and severe. And so there's a lot of again, talking about preventative measures, and guiding people to what it actually means to speak dog, so that they can see what is and isn't appropriate.
Jen W. 31:05
Yes, absolutely. That's something that I'm considering doing next year, which is I want to do like body language workshops, and you know, have people come in and really explain to them show them videos, show them a video of what a dog correcting another dog looks, I can explain. That's not mean, that dog was slapped on the wrist of the other dog and telling it that his behavior was not okay. And actually, that dog then learned a really valuable lesson. Whereas this dog that you think, looks really fun and playful, is being really rude, and is very close to getting bitten. You know?
Collin 31:45
Yeah, yeah. You want You want those little ones in the beginning so that the dog can learn again, what isn't what isn't appropriate. And and I definitely think that that is so needed in the general public because they don't see dog and dog interactions a lot. And it's scary, quote, unquote, scary to see, you know, teeth or growling, like people have this overreaction to what should be done. And so I know that, you know, obviously starts with us trying to, again, untrained what the world is telling us that we should believe about these kinds of interactions, and then helping give that kind of knowledge and toolkit to our clients first.
Jen W. 32:18
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, most unfortunately, I find, the easiest way to get through to people about tinnitus, there's a playful stuff is comparing it to children don't love doing it. But people will just get it when it's their own species. So if that child came in, was poking you in the eye repeatedly, eventually you'd go I'm really fed up with you, you know, and that's what's happening, you know, unfolding before us when this dog is, will not start humping the older dog? Yeah.
Collin 32:49
Well, I think I think all this, what we just talked about here really gets at one of your missions is, I love this, it says, to actively help dogs and owners achieve their ideals and to provide top quality mental and physical stimulation to dogs throughout Bedford, and the keywords that I really saw, right, there was actively, you're actively doing these things. So for you, what does actively look like when you're helping dogs and owners with their ideals?
Jen W. 33:17
Sure. So I guess it's, it's all part and parcel. Sometimes I have the training clients and go into the pack walks, sometimes they have the packet clients come in to training. And so for me, it's like that whole service, where I want to, to actually be helping. So if I have a training client, for example, on a backlog, and I know that there's something they've been working on, I'm going to be actively trying to help them with that in my time with them. And then give them that feedback. Like I said, through the reporting service, letting them know how it's going. So I guess that's really, you know, where that comes from in terms of the activly. Part. And then, you know, with the ideal stuff, I can't it's about understanding the emotions of people. So what are their goals with their dog, because that's very different to what my goals are, maybe. So with my dog is a very high drive dog, he's working lines. And so he needs to be, in my view, highly, highly trained. And I like to do a little bit of bite work with him, and you know, just really keep him sharp. And that's my ideal. But a lot of the people that I try and have pet dogs, and their picture of an ideal dog was very, very different than my picture. They don't want to do the bite stuff for fun. So it's really, you know, it's that that I'm trying to help them achieve. It's like what's what's, you know, I often ask them, What are your goals? What do you want this still to be? How do you want this so to live with you? And it's usually like, I want them to be relaxed in the house. I want them to come back when I call them. So that's, that's the part in terms of ideals
Collin 34:57
and actively you know, what you're doing is you're you're paying attention and you are being proactive in many cases, and knowing that this is just the service that you offer, right, it's not a, oh, you have to pay extra for me to pay attention to your dog and give you feedback. It's like, that's just what we do here at fetch club. That's how we operate. And that kind of active role in a dog's life in an owner's life taking an investment into what they're doing in a, you have hope that they're going to improve over time, and that they're going to have a better relationship and bond with their dog through your services. But that does take a little bit of individualized guiding and care. And as you keep bringing back up is this communication part is crucial to helping people see the progress or lack of with with their pet.
Jen W. 35:47
Yeah, absolutely. And last year, I started doing more Puppy Training bits. And something that I really, I mean, I really emphasize a lot of stuff in the puppy training stages, because that's where I made a lot of mistakes with my own personal dog. So that's the part where I'm saying, Don't do this, because, you know, six months down the line, you'll come back to me and you'll be spending a lot of money with me saying, I need to fix this problem. And I go, I told you that in the first place, don't do it. So that's where I guess I'm trying to be proactive there. So like I said, earlier, in our conversation, I think that we're a lot of people set their dog up for a bit of a full is that early socialization phase, putting too much value in other dogs and having them meet every dog at the park. And that's something that people love when they have their first puppy, oh, I want them to like all the dogs. So I'm going to go in and play with the dogs and they don't see the risks at that moment where they don't see the either the puppy is about to get bitten and turn reactive. Or they are, as I said, putting a loss of value in other dogs, which will eventually turn into leisure activity or frustrated creature syndrome or whatever. So it's my job to kind of, I view it as my job anyway, to kind of come in and go, don't do this, don't do this, don't do this. I'm just gonna scale it up back. Alright, fine.
Collin 37:17
People really do have a hard time looking down the road. And I think one of the biggest things for us that we deal with, is it just his proper lead training and letting people know that, you know, it's kind of funny right now that this little puppy is really pulling on the leash. Um, this dog is going to be 100 pounds eventually. And you're not going to have a socket in your in your shoulder because the dog is going to pull it out. Because it's going to be because you're not addressing this issue right now. And that starts to get people's attention when they're like, oh, you know, I didn't think about that. Actually. It's like, No, I know you didn't, but that's why I'm here. And this is, this is what we're gonna work on.
Jen W. 37:54
Right? Exactly. And I know, in the early stages, you have that puppy brain, don't you? You can't really hear anything that anyone says to you, because the puppy is distracting. But at least at least we said, you know, I did, I want to say three sets of puppy classes with my puppy. I was really keen. But I definitely think that there were certain parts of really useful information missing from those. And I kind of wish someone had to use a little bit of scare tactics with me to say, by the way, don't do this because you ruin your dog forever. Okay, thank you. Bye. So, I guess I was what I'm trying to offer this different is, is the Hey, I also train adult dogs with their behavior. And I know that when you do this with the puppy, that's what that looks like with an adult dog.
Collin 38:44
Yeah, no, there is the reality distortion field of a puppy is immense. And it is powerful. And you're right, trying to break through that for some people is is difficult. And it does take some strong language, some direct language at times to try and steer people back to what actually needs to get done.
Jen W. 39:02
Right. Ah, you know, and then you see them a couple of months later, and they've ignored you. But yeah, I can that's just part of having this job. Some of them really take you on board. And that's really rewarding. So,
Collin 39:16
you know, peaks and troughs? Well, in your three years, you've experienced quite a lot of growth. You've you've hired, as you've mentioned, and recently saw you brought on another van to accommodate all the packs that you have in group box that you have knowing was that growth expected when you first started out.
Jen W. 39:34
I mean, I definitely wanted it in the long term, but it happened a lot faster than I was expecting, taking. The van I got about this time last year. So I've had that for a little while now. And I hired for the first time just before I got that second van. So there was a bit of an uncomfortable stage where I didn't really have enough vehicles But I didn't also I, you know, I didn't want a second van that wasn't being used, because that's a huge outlay. That doesn't make any sense. So I needed to kind of hire first and get the thing, get the van. Yeah, it happened a lot faster. I think that was like my five year plan, and it happened after one year. But it's to be honest, I find it really exciting, some most fun thing I've ever done. Like, every time I add a new service, or I think about new ways in which I can grow, I just get really excited. And you know, I'm a very creative person, naturally, my background is a very creative background. So I just I love all of that kind of creative stuff and thinking how I can, how I can present you things and how I can make it look and how I can add it to the website and all that stuff.
Collin 40:55
I think very, very often we forget how creative running a business and being an entrepreneur, actually is. I think many people think of Oh, the boring business stuff and the drudgery of the day and having to do taxes and keep receipts and having spreadsheets and going through hiring processes. That's actually really creative about as you touched on, like, okay, I can try new things, I can experiment with how my website looks, I can, you know, try and offer a service or pitch it differently. And we really do get to exercise a lot of creativity that I get, again, I don't think very many people think about
Jen W. 41:31
Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, when you have a small business now, you do you wear so many hats, you know, like I am my social media manager and my content creator. And my I mean, I did have a web designer, do my website, but I quite often will go back and edit it fairly significantly. So web site editor, I'm going to go there to send not designer, I don't want to be disrespectful. You know, I write a lot of copy I do with my social media, I do very long, very boring captions, but my clients love all that training that's like, I find that to be quite creative, because I love writing. So I get to, you know, do a lot of that in that way. And I love a metaphor. So any kind of metaphor that I can possibly throw into an Instagram caption is going in. There's so many to so many different ways to be creative. But the really boring stuff that I'm not very good at, I tend to ship that one out, like taxes. I have my lovely accountant who I couldn't survive without. And I just actually recently hired someone to help me out with my emails, because they're a bit intense after a long day of being, you know, outside. So, the, you know, the stuff that really, essentially if you hate it, then delegate. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's,
Collin 42:57
it's so true. I know, for us, we do blogging about different topics. And it was something that I really enjoyed writing. But for some reason, putting together a blog just became a really big drudgery for me, and I didn't look forward to it every single week where we do it. And so when we first hired somebody, part of the job was like, Hey, you could try blogs. And that first week where somebody did it, and I didn't have to, I was like, Okay, this was worth all that headache. This is amazing. Like I obsess about this. And it was an amazing blog, and I still got to edit it and do some other stuff with it. But I was like, this is now I can focus on this other stuff. And I love hearing that of going this, we wear hats, and sometimes the hats don't quite fit. And we do have to wear them for at least a little bit. But then trying to figure out who else can wear those hats. And whether that's hiring help or that is, you know, pushing it off to your tax person or bringing on an employee, whatever that looks like for you to do so that you can actually be working on the things that you want to be doing. Like that's really where we need to find ourselves.
Jen W. 43:58
Right, and it's terrifying, you know, handing off the responsibility of something that you really care about. And you feel like you've gotten pretty good at yourself. Like, you know, the first time hiring, and then they go out and they do the job. And then with your clients. They're like, Oh, this is so scary. But that's part of growing a business. And if you want to grow business, that's just this part of the experience. And they might be awesome, or they might not be very good, in which case you're going to have to deal with that. But I think delegating is the only way is the only way to grow a business and to put your trust in the people. And once you do delegate the tasks, which you either don't really have time for or you just find like it makes you kind of hate your business, and then it frees you up to make your money back in other areas.
44:52
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Collin 45:22
want you with the kind of growth that you've experienced? And the all of the things that you have been doing? And all the creative outlets that you you're investing in? How do you avoid burnout and in being exhausted with everything?
Jen W. 45:38
I am, so not the person to ask about this ever figured it out? I don't know. I don't know, just now. So it's Christmas time when we're recording this podcast, I don't know when it will come out. But I, for the first time in my business have taken three weeks off which credit. And I just knew I had to do it because I I don't take time off. And with the pandemic. I mean, what's the point in taking time off? It's not like I can go on holiday anywhere. So I just don't my clients know me as person who is super hard working super reliable, I am always there. And so actually, when it came to me emailing all of them saying, right, I'm gonna take the longest Christmas holiday. They you know, I got so many messages back like good for you. I'm so glad you're taking a break. You know, so I probably should do that more. And I think when you're confident about it, like these are my dates. See you all in the new year. Like, okay, cool. See you soon. And again, if it's a client, he goes, Well, I need you to work up until Christmas Eve. May those are not the clients that you? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Collin 46:55
And that is a, I think sometimes we may think, Oh, it's a fairy tale, like I have to work during these times, or I can't take this time off. Because what if I lose business? Or what if people leave? Or what if? Or what if? Or what if, what if? And I think looking stick taking a step back and going Yeah, but what if I burn out in it all, you know, and I lose everything? Because I'm not able to function? Like there's a blind risk to not taking care of ourselves and having one client go, well, I need to do on the 24th. That's not if that's compared to the what could happen. Like, that's not even risk at all that and as you said, Okay, well, that's fine. I will, I will say goodbye to that client and find room for somebody who respects these boundaries that I'm trying to set for myself.
Jen W. 47:36
Exactly. And it's possible, these people will just fall into your lap at some point, and they will love what you do. And they will congratulate you for taking a long holiday instead of you know, being a bit pushy on that. Yeah, yeah, I think it was also I had a I had a consultation with Gina Kristen Morrison.
Collin 47:59
Yes, yeah. Yeah, we love Kristin.
Jen W. 48:01
Oh, she's the best. Really like that. She's like, don't work ever just have a business, but don't, you know, in like an inspirational way. And I had a, I had a call with her. And she was kind of, really, I was I was thinking about, you know, do my first hire at the time. And she was saying, I was thinking like I'm going to have, I'm going to hire somebody full time. And they're going to run all the pack walks alongside me. And so we're going to be doing, you know, 1000s of dogs every week. And then she was like, No, check, no, get them to cover your days, and take a couple of days off. And it was blew my mind. I tried it last not very long. But the idea. And at some point, when I'm less excited about you know, growing the business and I want to do this service and I want to do this thing, then, you know, there's the idea there that you can just hire and then take a you know, take a day off, take two days off, step away. You know, you do and having done it, it was it was great. My clients were fine about it. It's definitely an option for the future.
Collin 49:10
Yeah, no, that that is such a different way of looking at it. Because we do think hire, do you think full time or at least like very full part time and knowing that I'm not hiring this person, so I can triple my business. I'm hiring this person. So I get time back to myself. Now I still have to care about the person and make sure they're not burning out. And that's why you know, we're gonna attack team this or, you know, hire second person to relieve their shifts and say, whatever, you can work that out. But that first step of going, I just need my time back. And I still love my business. I still love what I do. I just need a little bit more time. And that is a very freeing thought. Absolutely. And to step into that and go okay, this is the first step of many that I'm going to take as I evolve and as my business change. That way I can focus on other things or I can be freer with my time to actually do the creative things that I want to be doing.
Jen W. 50:02
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when you're, when you're hiring is something I let and I'd love to know your thoughts on this, Colin, I'm fairly new to hiring I've had under 10 hires. And I think finding a full timer was like trying to find a unicorn. Like it almost shouldn't exist. Because the reality is, is that when it's your business, you can work on it full time. And you can pretty much survive that, yes, you get burned out eventually. But when it's somebody else's business doing this job, full time. Ah, that's a that's a lot. This is. You're asking somebody?
Collin 50:41
No, I really I agree. I absolutely agree. And I think that's why if you if you're going to be a full tomato full time, hires are still pretty rare. In the pet care industry, they're growing in popularity, but I think you give them some diversity of work. So maybe they're not doing the pet care for eight hours a day, but they have some administrators who are doing some more cross training things. And we absolutely agree of hiring just a few very, very part time people and going okay, yeah, we've got a staff of three or four people, but they're each working maybe 1015 hours a week to cover everything, or maybe even less than that, you know, we have some people who go, No, I want to work five hours a week, that's what I have available, that's great, I can fill that time. But that way, at least I know that that person isn't going to be you know, up at 5am Going to bed at 11pm. Like we do sometimes you know what?
Jen W. 51:33
Exactly, you can get, I think that way of doing it works so, so much better. Like at the moment, I have one of my staff, Amelia, she does just Fridays, and she has her own grooming business around the outside. And so she uses the you know, she does walking to break up her week and do something a little bit different, that works great for her. And then my other hire Allie, she does walking and then she's just starting to do some training now as well. She's, she's loving it, she's loving, doing the training, she's enjoying the pack walks in the same way that I you know, when I started, I enjoyed them because I was learning I mean, I still do really my guilty pleasure. But I was learning so much, you know, I was really at the deep end in terms of really observing that dog behavior. And I think that's what made me a much better trainer. So for her, she does three days for me and you know, the diversity that she has, in terms of what she's doing, I I know that it's making the job a bit more bearable, because the reality is, is just doing that one job can be really exhausting. But particularly, it was the I think people really underestimate how hard it is to work with dogs. It's so draining. It is so brilliant, but it's so draining
Collin 52:47
it is it is and that's the question we you know, we go through our hiring process of going How do I how do I help this person understand what exactly it is that we do because it's not just getting cuddles and kisses all the time. Like there are a lot of emotions that run when you're doing your you're actively your brain must be fully engaged from start to finish. And in dealing with emotional clients or dealing with emotions with with one of the pets, that's hard to get across in I absolutely agree that having people who have other things going on in their lives, it helps them know that, okay, I have this outlet over here to be with dogs and invest in that and then I can go do these other things. And it really does give them a lot of balance. Because that was that was what we were afraid of when we first started hiring was how am I going to find somebody who can devote you know, 40 hours a week to this or you know, be available 24/7 The reality is that that doesn't exist. But you can find maybe two or three people that can make that work for you. And and now you start kind of piecing this together and it really becomes a lot more manageable to fill the time.
Jen W. 53:55
Right exactly. And at a certain point you you start to get really lucky with your hires and they start being people who are a huge asset to the business you know, it's not necessarily just a case of okay, I'm going to fill this I'm going to do this job I'm going to fill this film is working on it's done. It's like they bring something to the table and that's when you know you kind of struggled even then you know like with Ali who she's my three three day lady she's also a vet around the outside of that and so she the certain parts of the you know working with me that she looks at as relief from her other job because her other job is quite full on very stressful and really quite emotional. And so I think it's kind of nice for her just to be out with the dogs and just kind of enjoying you know, the fun hanging out with the dogs.
Collin 54:52
Yeah, I think that's key too with with the ad with the interview process to to highlight those aspects and kind of start queuing into What does this person do this person applied? Why did they do that? And what are they looking for? Can I meet that? Is this going to be a good fit for them? Will they find satisfaction in this not just Am I filling hours? And are they making enough pay? There's a lot that goes into that consideration.
Jen W. 55:16
Right? And that's how you, you know, hold on to them. I'm letting because like I said, I've hired a few now, but not that many years, still very much the start of my hiring journey. And I've, I've never managed a business before, I've never hired people before. And there's, you know, I think that's just, you learn a lot through doing that you will inevitably make a few mistakes and make a few hiring mistakes and maybe hire people who maybe knew from the off actually weren't really the right field, they didn't really want to hang around for very long. And you probably could have seen that. But that I mean, that's just part of it. Right? You just have to go through that journey and go Oh, god.
Collin 56:01
Yeah, absolutely. You go through that. You go, Oh, I'm learning a lot. It's a lot faster than learning a lot.
Jen W. 56:09
A lot. Two years into this business. Oh, god. Yeah. It's great, though. It's so exciting. You know, it's hard. It's heartbreaking sometimes. This is exciting.
Collin 56:21
Yeah. viewing those as, as an opportunity for growth. And to do it better next time. I think that's ultimately like what you've got to do in those situations. It's like in my game I would make and I would think about that, it's like, okay, like, yeah, we're a little scared nervous to hire, we know we need to, we know we want to to reach our business goal. So we need to hire, we're going to learn a lot, we're going to make mistakes, but I have to embrace the mistakes because those mistakes are necessary for me to reach the goals. I don't know when those mistakes are gonna happen. But I know they are. And that just has to be built into my calculation and be built into my decision making. As I move forward with
Jen W. 56:57
this. Ah, huh. You sound like you've read the Talent Code. Have you read the Talent Code,
Collin 57:01
I actually haven't the talent,
Jen W. 57:03
oh, my god. Amazing book, you can also listen to as an audio that Casey like me and don't have the time. It's a book called The Talent Code by Daniel Coyle. And it's all about, essentially how our brains really do learn from our mistakes. And if we pay attention to our mistakes, and we're in, you know, something called a deep learning state, then we grow so much more. And we've become really talented at something if we're actively paying attention to the mistakes rather than just brushing over them. So absolutely, I try to look at every situation, which didn't work out the way that I wanted it to as, what can I take from this? What can I learn from this?
Collin 57:47
Yeah, and that comes with experience, because a lot of times, we don't like to look at our mistakes, because they're icky, they make us feel bad, we start questioning a lot of like, why am I doing this? Who am I to do this, but really, that's where the, that's where the growth happens, right? If you're not making, it's okay to make mistakes and safe situations and small scenarios, so that you avoid them later, kind of, like we talked about earlier with the dogs correcting the initial behaviors, so that they don't lead to something else, we have to do that in our own life, we have to correct ourselves and learn from those mistakes, so that we can work our way up to bigger things.
Jen W. 58:18
Right? Absolutely. And it you know, that goes into everything. You know, if I have a dog training session, and I communicate something to a client in a way that they clearly didn't understand. I like to think about that session afterwards and think, How can I explain that better next time? But what did i What did I say whether I didn't understand the like, what mistakes that I make? And it just, you know, when you're really paying attention to the mistakes, it's a little bit depressing. But you can, you can use it as a way to become so so so much better. Or you can ignore all of your mistakes and just, you know, stay in an immediate lane. Is that really harsh? That's really harsh, isn't it? Hey, speaking
Collin 59:00
directly, sometimes. I can't help it. I've English, it's what we do. I know. It's just built in. Oh, no, no, no. I think that that is a really big, big takeaway is to know that we have like, that's, that's what we have to think through. And we're not we have to know, okay, maybe this mistake feels bad. Maybe a motivating factor is I don't want to feel this way again. What can then what can I do better? So I never experienced this. That's where some of this growth happen. That's where we can get some of that motivation to actually look at it and go, I never want this to happen again, or experience this this letdown or feelings or emotions. How can I make sure what processes can I put in place? What do I need to learn? How do I restructure to make that never happen
Jen W. 59:45
again, you know, when I say I think some of the very best things that have happened in my business have come out of mistakes. So for example, in the early months of having my business, I had a repeat client who You know, as a valued client, a longtime client, and I put in an extra day that they don't normally book and I forgot, because I didn't write it down correctly. It wasn't in my phone. I forgot. And I didn't remember until the next day that I was supposed to walk the stop. And oh, there was so nice about it, there was so forgiving. And obviously, you know, I was so apologetic, but for me, I was like this can never happen again, I need a better sister, at which point I started looking at, you know, all the various pet systems that are available in all the software's in terms of scheduling and all that kind of stuff. And I found one that worked really well for me. And it turns out to be a huge asset to my business, and my clients love it. And it makes my whole life so much easier. Because everything is scheduled for me on there. And everything is scheduled for my staff. And it's really simple for me, Sarah, that does my invoices is just, it's amazing. And that was born out of guessing. So.
Collin 1:01:07
Yeah, that's taking that take that frustration going, again, I can this can't happen again. This is my business. I can't this can't happen. I feel bad about this. What do I need to implement? What do I need to get? So that never happens again and getting the app and that app I'm sure has helped facilitate and accommodate a lot of the growth and expansion that you've had, that maybe would have been delayed or prolonged with the growth, pains of growth? Had you not gotten it as when you did.
Jen W. 1:01:35
At this point, I couldn't survive without it. I genuinely couldn't run my business without having some kind of software. So I'm, I'm just so glad that I dove into that one I did. And I'm really glad that my flight ticket if
Collin 1:01:52
they will, right, you will have those clients that that love you love the service. And they recognize again, that it's it's human that mistakes will happen. And those the clients again, that you want.
Jen W. 1:02:03
Yes, yeah, absolutely. And you know, they're a great client. And they've been with me for a really long time. So I'm very grateful for them.
Collin 1:02:10
Well, Jen, thank you so much for sharing some of the mistakes that you've made, but also how you from them. I also really appreciate you diving into how you make your pack walks, work, and how we can better pay attention to dog behavior and dog language. But there's a lot going on, there's so much more that you're doing and that you have planned for the future. So how can people get in touch with you follow along and start picking your brains with questions?
Jen W. 1:02:39
Yes, of course. So sex club, Bedford, on Instagram, fetch club on Facebook. And then WWW dot fetch club.net is my website, probably best to contact me on Instagram, because that's the one that I use the most. If that's pretty much all the socials.
Collin 1:03:01
I always feel like I forget one, two. So I will make sure that I have those links in the show. So listeners and on the website so people can listen to the can click to those and start getting connected with you, Jen, I really, really appreciated this conversation. Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to do that. And so again, thank you so much.
Jen W. 1:03:22
Now, I thank you so much for having me. It's been really great talking to you. And it's a little bit weird, but it's like, basically the middle of the night now. And I know there's the middle of the day there. But now thank you so much. It's been really nice chatting with you.
Collin 1:03:37
How are you equipping your clients to be the best pet parents possible? I think for us, one of the foundations of that is recognizing our limitations, whether that's lack of knowledge or experience or our desire to take on certain types of clients and then communicating that to the people who reach out to us. But not just leaving it there having someone to refer them to and giving them other tools and resources that they need to implement when we recognize that one of our goals is to make the pet parents as self sufficient as possible. And as knowledgeable as possible. We basically want to work ourselves out of a job so that they are fully knowledgeable about the pet that they have in their care. Understand that your clients have high emotions about certain things. They love their pets, almost to a fault at times, and they may feel embarrassed when things go wrong and they feel self conscious whenever their dog acts a certain way. We do need to be sensitive to that and recognize that they have emotional needs that need to be met as well when we're talking with them and interacting with them. We really want to thank today's sponsors pet sitters International and time to pet for making today's show possible. And we really want to thank you for listening. Hope you're having a wonderful week and we'll be back again soon.
