151: Working with Family with Dominic Hodgson
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Summary:
Working with a family member is something many of us have done, either formally or informally. It’s a great way to get help in times of need, but how do you make the most of it and preserve your relationship? Dominic Hodgson, The Pet Biz Wiz, joins us to share his experience working alongside his wife and son. From having good processes to treating them the same as other employees, it can be tough at times and is a great opportunity for some.
Topics on this episode:
Family boundaries
Transitions in a family business
Advice for working with family
Business in a Box
Main take away? Be consistent with how you treat your family members and other employees. Treating them the same keeps it professional and the expectations known to everyone.
About our guest:
Dom Hodgson was born in Sunderland , in the North East of England in January 1978. He left school at 16 and began a career as a singer and dance teacher before getting a 'proper job' as sales rep for a tobacco company. 10 years later he fancied a change and launched a dog adventure business called Pack Leader Dog Adventures.
From there he got into dog training which eventually led to his online and offline dog training program and the launch of his Amazon bestselling, highly acclaimed book 'How to Be Your Dogs Superhero'. The year after Dom penned Walk Yourself Wealthy, which shows pet business owners how to turn their passion for pooches intoa profitable business. In 2018 Dom wrote his third book 'Worry Free Walks: How to transform your dangerous, difficult and devilish dog into a problem free pooch that your proud to take to the park.
The latest book 'Worry Free Walks' is the first in a 5 book series that aims to fill the knowledge gap for dog owners who love their dogs dearly, but have no control over them. He lives in Sunderland with his wife Beth, two sons, Alex and Toby, and Barry (the Dogue de Bordeaux) and Sidney (the Cocker Spaniel). In no particular order he loves red wine, ballet, HBO television shows, cheese, baking bread and chillaxing at the park with his dogs and a Jack Reacher book.
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
business, staff member, pet, people, clients, dog, systems, family member, year, work, confidence, beth, bit, gift, service, talking, son, marketing, alex, easy
SPEAKERS
Collin, Dominic
00:17
Hi, I'm Meghan. I'm Collin. And this is Pet Sitter Confessional and open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet and pet perennials,
Collin 00:30
working with family, is it a good idea? Does it work for everybody? What are some of the things that we should all be taking into consideration if we are interested in possibly working with a spouse working with a brother or a sister or or maybe our child? Today, Dominic Hodgson joins us to discuss what it's been like working with his son and his wife, and gives us some wonderful pointers to make it work to preserve those relationships and to get the most out of it. So let's get started. Thanks for having me back
Dominic 01:03
on the show, again, calling I really appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to speak to you. My name is Don Hodgson, just to confirm that Colin wasn't tell lies. I am the pet biz whiz. I, over the last 10 years, I have had dog walking, dog training, and online store. I've run events. But for the last five, six years, I've primarily been coaching and consulting with other pet business owners, helping them to create profitable, impactful pet businesses in their community to help them and their families and the dog owners in their town. And yeah, I'm I'm known as the pet biz whiz. And yeah, there's a basically anybody, trainers, groomers, walkers, pet sitters. If you have a service in the pet industry, and you are working too many hours and not earn enough money, then I'm the guy to help you.
Collin 02:05
Absolutely. And when we last had you on back in October, we again that topic was kind of road to recovery and life after COVID. So how have things been for you in your business since then? To me very good.
Dominic 02:19
I have to say, for for myself, I found it on a personal level, as regards the coaching and consulting side of the business. We had our best year ever. Numbers are at an all time high, both of my inner circle members and you know, private coaching clients. More importantly, really, I think a lot of my private coaching clients that pay VIP members, they also ended the year on a real high. So there are a lot of people reported having their best month ever in October, November, December. And yeah, it was a rough year for sure. But you know, those who stick to the tried and tested marketing principles that I talked about last time and that no doubt will touch upon this time. These guys they bounce back really, really well. You know, that obviously hasn't all been great. The my bricks and mortar home, you know, my local dog adventure and home boarding business, that's still performing a bit under par compared to usual. But that's to be expected, you know, for at least the next quarter. Whilst the the vaccine gets rolled out. And we move in and out of lockdowns, we have different tears over here in the UK. So yeah, it's good to talk start to the air. But you know that to be honest with you the local side of the business that's only about 20% of my business anywhere now. So it's it's kind of a less important cog in the in the machine if you like but yeah, it was a good end to a really difficult year. Yeah, I
Collin 03:50
think many people saw similar where the middle of the year was kind of the deepest, darkest hour, and then there was a little bit of light towards the end there. So what What kept you going through those those tough times? What keeps you buoyed in hard times?
Dominic 04:07
I think, for me personally, and this is really, what's the message that I am that I was gonna put out to my guys. I mean, I think the dark that I think the darkest time for me came really like initially and also maybe in the first two or three weeks of the initial lockdown in March 2020. And that was just such an unknown. A lot of so many unknowns wasn't the you know, what is this thing? How long is it going to last? You know, and people just didn't know what was happening. You know, you couldn't go anywhere, you couldn't do anything. And we have no idea of what it was going to improve at all. So that's for me, certainly that was the kind of darkest time from a business point of view. I kind of it didn't take me long to get back on the horse. Because you asked like what what kept me going I it really was kind of a belief in the market. fundamentals that are that I live my life by really, you know, I mean, I've invested a lot of money over the years in masterminds training programs, to level up my thinking, and my actual, my strategy of how I approach my business and the direct response kind of principles that I live my business by. And, you know, the people that I've, that I've learned from, they've been through lots of recessions in the past as well, I started my own pet business at the beginning of the last financial crisis. So and, you know, it's it's like, in a way, even though this was a brand new thing, it wasn't new. And I kind of had a firm belief that you know, what we've done before we'll continue to work. The trick, really, and this is a really difficult that the trick is to stick to the things that you know, work, because it's so easy to get distracted by bright, shiny objects and see things that what other people might be doing that they say are works, you know, when in all, in all honesty, you're far better off usually just concentrating on the stuff that, you know, works and doubling down on that. So yes, that's what I did.
Collin 06:07
Wow. Well, I love hearing that of sticking to the fundamentals, sticking to the basics and having confidence in what you know. And and doing that, right. It's, like you mentioned, you can get distracted by all these new shiny objects that come in, especially for businesses of like, Oh, do this one trick, and you'll get, you know, x return or whatever, it's, well, we need to stick to what we know and have confidence in that, as we move through this because we're coming from a position of strength, as opposed to new and uncharted territories.
Dominic 06:38
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, there wasn't, there was a time I think, like I said, maybe about two weeks into the lockdown. Where, where as I kind of thought to myself, Well, you know what, like this, and no, this stuff works. And all this stuff has worked for me, and you know, smart people, smarter people than me, who I've learned this from who I trust. It's worked for them for many years, too. But like, boy, is this going to be a test? Yeah, this is really where we're gonna put this to the test now, you know, in a cheap enough, you know, face it often it did work.
Collin 07:13
Well, we have you on today to talk about working with family. And you have a lot of experience with this. So I know you've worked with your son in the past. So tell us about how that came about. And and Whose idea was it to bring him on and get started working together?
Dominic 07:30
Yeah. Cool. So he actually wasn't the footwell maximos. Man, you know what it's like your family members, they get roped into all kinds of things, don't they? Whether they whether they want to or not, you don't matter how old they are. There's always a job, you know, what the kid surely wants to do? Isn't it?
Collin 07:48
Yeah, absolutely. I'm sure they'll always have memories of never not working with with pets or in the business around around the home.
Dominic 07:57
Yes, so. So my first, my first family member who really helped me out was my dad, when I started to get full back in kind of 2012. And, you know, too many dogs out really for one person. So my dad used to come and help me out. And then it was getting to the case where I needed him to come out more often than maybe he wanted to. And, you know, it's all free, free, free stuff for a while. But eventually, you need to plan to do something, you know, more, more proper. And so yeah, so took on a staff member, then she stayed with me for about two years. And then when she left, it was kind of serendipity really happy coincidence that my son Alex, he had, he was a college doing a sports science qualification, which wasn't really enjoying, and he just, he just wanted to change, and I needed somebody. So I said, you know, Hey, why don't you Why don't you give this a go for a while, you know, and, you know, you get on with the dogs. Yeah, you share, you know, all of the benefits. And, you know, all the clients anyway, and yeah, so that was kind of how it happened. Like many as I've discovered, yes, probably you have on the various interviews that you've done, you know, a lot of things happen by happenstance, don't they, you know, and we fall into business partnerships or staff members and, you know, new business opportunities and stuff. They just, if your eyes are open, they just kind of happened on them.
Collin 09:28
They do they do. And part of it that challenge is having your eyes open to recognize those opportunities and take advantage of them and to have it you know, come across where your son sitting there going, Well, you know, I don't like what I'm doing and you're going oh, I need help you know that that can be an easy opportunity to miss if you're not open to coming in working together. So what kind of challenges did you face working together over the years?
Dominic 09:54
Well, the kind of the usual father son challenges really, what I did was I had because Alex wasn't my first staff member. And I had, when I take it on my previous staff member, I made a real point of teaching her like about the values of the business, and you know, the things that we must do the red lines that can't be crossed, you know, and you know, what was important, what wasn't not important. So I kind of had all that figured out. I had a bit of a template to work to, with my own son. And and yeah, I think, you know, he actually responded quite well to it. And I think he found it easier for me to, I'm not saying it wasn't difficult at times, because obviously, I'm still his dad, and he's still my son. But, you know, there's a, we're talking about people's pride and joy their pets, you know, and I think having that whole safety first principle that I kind of run the business by, that was something that I had to get across to me, and also whether it was my son, or whether it wasn't my son, a certain things that have to be done a certain way. And if he couldn't do them, then you know, he wasn't going to be able to stick around.
Collin 11:04
I'm sure that's kind of hard for some people to hear of Oh, like, Oh, I actually really do have to treat my family member as an employee, right, I have to take them through the same training through the same courses, hold them to the same standards for my business, because I don't, I don't want my my services to suffer. I don't want my clients to get a less optimal experience, just because I'm, I'm showing preference to this employee, because they happen to be, you know, related to me.
Dominic 11:33
Yeah, for sure. And, you know, you have to, you have to think a bit more, you know, medium to long game with it, you know, that the standards that you've set, there have to be met, otherwise, eventually, the business isn't going to be there, you know, you you are when you walk, because of the the marketing that you've done in the reputation that you've built. Are you long for that to to disappear, you know, if if standards aren't being met, you know, and yet, your clients aren't going to give you for very long if, if, you know, if they aren't getting what they paid for what you promised them, and you know, the uncle accept? Well, it, you know, it's his son that's doing it, therefore, everything's okay. You know, what his daughter, whoever it is that you've got working for you? So, yeah, so that was, that was kind of that was how it went really, and and it's, I'll be honest with you, the clients touchwood very, very well, I think the clients were reassured by the fact that it was my son, even though I'd had a staff member before, who I wasn't related to in any way. And, yeah, so that that made it, they got bored of that very, very quickly. And it's about gradually increasing the sort of responsibility to Alex really, we built the numbers of the business back up again, obviously, there was a period of time where you're basically having to shepherd him through all of the processes of the business, so that he, he knows all the systems and how everything works, and how everything needs to be done. Yeah, and then gradually, just handing over more and more responsibility, you know, given him more trust, as it's been earned, so that he's able to go and do the job on his own. And, yeah, that was, you know, not a lot different to how we would deal with any other kind of stuff in
Collin 13:21
here. And I think that I think that what you just said, there is really key there not much different than it would be for any other staff member, you're holding them to the same standards, you're going through the same processes, you're you're slowly giving over responsibilities, as they show that you're capable of handling them. And I some people may be listening to this going, there's no way I could work with a family member, because we don't have a good relationship right now. So what was your relationship? Like, before he came on the business? And and how did that impact your relationship? throughout your time working together?
Dominic 13:57
Yeah. What was that a good relationship? I have another son as well, who's eight years younger. And we do have slightly different relationships. I think Beth has commented that Alex and I are too alike, sometimes. So there has been some friction there.
Collin 14:14
I know how that is.
Dominic 14:17
But, but like, overall, like reverting back to what we said before, you know, it is treated like a business, you know, and it's saying, hey, look, you know, we've This is what needs to do in every day, this is the way that it needs to be done. You know, this is where there needs to be done so that we do a good job, so that clients are happy so that dogs are safe. And so that they're you know, we we end the day, and we've improved the lives of the clients and the clients dogs, and they're keen to come back tomorrow, you know, and then that's we got a sustainable business then. Right, you know, and anything that doesn't chime with that, you know, is that well done that well, that needs to be addressed, doesn't it? You know, because Ultimately, where and I guess, when it's when it's a family business, you kind of I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or not really, if everybody but you do inevitably play on the sort of family business card, you know, and I, hey, you know, this is like, this is not just whatever it is X amount of pounds that you're getting every week, you know, this is something that contributes to the whole welfare of the family kind of thing. So, in that way, I guess it does bring some added pressures. for the, for the staff member that you're bringing in, you know, from the family. Yeah, so I've just just kind of been thinking about that. Now. I'm just thinking about that out loud as we're talking about it.
Collin 15:38
Yeah, I know, I know, you know, we we market our business as a family business as well. You know, your pets are family. And it is this bigger approach to it. And, and I can definitely see if, you know, as the kids get older, this this pressure kind of maybe to perform to be part of the family to be part of that visible image that people are looking to, as you're talking about, you know, how the business is run, how its operated, who's involved, and making sure to set up proper boundaries. With that with that. So, you know, how did you handle making the break from business during the day and family at the dinner table at nighttime?
Dominic 16:17
Yeah, that's, I think that's a tough one, I think that that is definitely tougher, you know, it's easier to communicate the values and the systems that you're gonna win the business by, it's less easy to switch off. And because it's always on your mind, isn't it? You know, it's always in your mind as a business owner. And, you know, you need to have, you need to have laid out very clearly what the responsibilities are of the staff member, you know, so that, I think maybe is initially I struggled with having like a cut off time, you know, for Okay, well, when it gets to this time of the day, you don't know because, you know, when you're when your pets in and busy as well, it's, it can get a little hectic, you know, and you're trying to get everything done to get it settled with the dogs and stuff. So you kind of want it to be well, you know, until we're all settled, then then nobody's there. Nobody knows until we're all finished, then nobody's finished, you know? And I think that's, as well, that was certainly presented some issues to somebody else I wanted to bring up as well is I you probably seen Colin, I'm quite front and center with putting myself into the marketing. And, you know, no, I have no, some people, I would say, I would have no morals, I have no inhibitions, you know, I have no and prepared, you know, I'll sit and do anything anywhere really, really care. I don't really care anymore. Well, my son is very different, you know, my son's more like his mom. And he found it really very difficult initially, even just to be, you know, on photographs with the dogs and stuff, you know, because like, it just wasn't him, you know, so like, I think it's, it's happening, understanding that, you know, the staff, you know, let's be honest, the staff, staff, even if, even when they are family members as well, they're never gonna care about the business as much as you, you know, they can't because your business, and in a way, you don't need them to care about as much as you need them to be able to do the things that you need them to do, you know, so it was, you know, for me, it was a bit about well, okay, well, Alex isn't gonna be able to do a lot of these things that I want him to do, that I'm able to do quite easily. But he is able to do and he can do a lot of the things that I really need him to do, you know, which, which is about the doctor care, and you've been polite to the clients and all that kind of thing. So yeah,
Collin 18:42
right. Well, and true to that, you know, you do have better insight into the, into that particular employee, because they're your son, they're your family member. So you know, a lot of you know, how they behave, how they react a lot of their preferences. So I'm sure you can also use that. Because you do have that insight of, Okay, I know you don't like this one thing, but I know you really like, you know, doing this part of the business over here, so I can give that to you. And you might not have that knowledge of somebody who you hire, you know, off the street or through through an ad that you place out. So it might give you a little bit you know, better able to utilize their their gifts and abilities, then someone that you don't know quite as well.
Dominic 19:23
Yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. Yeah, don't do that. Right. You did, right. Yeah, you do have you do have some insight. And, you know, in time, he redid prove himself to be
19:34
a really
19:37
responsible
Dominic 19:39
family and staff member, you know, and he, he, he went from being like a, what we call a canine fulfillment officer to be in the adventure manager. And then we took another staff member on so then the two of them work together. guy called Dan Albert, so I've known for a number of years, but Alex and Dan worked together and pretty much ran that Whole dog adventure side of the business, which was then able to free me up to do everything else, you know. So that's kind of the time when 2015 2016 when the more of the boot right in and the pet business consultant side of the business start to take off, you know, I wouldn't have been able to do that if I hadn't put the systems in place to enable me to bring staff members in.
Collin 20:26
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20:31
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Collin 20:47
If you are looking for a new petsitting software for your business, give time to pet a try. As a listener of pet sitter confessional, you'll get 50% off your first three months when you sign up at time to pet.com slash confessional. What was it? What's it like? managing you know, a family member in those positions who have control over you know, big portions of the company in holding them accountable to
Dominic 21:13
your answer different questions.
Collin 21:18
Fair, fair enough.
Dominic 21:20
I was gonna say is when a lot of people, I do a lot of training with my clients about you know, when is the right time to stop scale and stuff. And really, that the time to start looking for stuff is actually way earlier than you think it is. Because you can very quickly go from being busy ish to incredibly busy to too busy. That can happen quite quickly, and always happens at a rate that you don't want it to as well. And there's lots of things you can do to dampen demand, like, increased prices, and you should do that as well. But really, you should be thinking if if staffing is something that you want to do, you know, if it's something that you you know, because it's nothing silly, you have to do that. But obviously, like you said, if you want to grow in different directions, if you've said, what your income goals are really, you know, because you're gonna have to, you got to be able to scale the business somehow, you know, or sell more stuff to more people or sell at a higher price or whatever, you know, got to do something like that if you want to make more money. And so you want to think about stuffing earlier than you maybe want to. And that then leads you to thinking Well, okay, is this busy? Is this business ready, then, for me to take stuff on? What do I have? Do I have proper systems in place? Not just in my head, you know, this is what I do when I take the dogs out of the van or this is what we do to ensure the dogs have settled on a night or, you know, what, what do you have systems do you have systems and procedures in place, so that you have this kind of template, a manual, if you like, for bringing stuff in bring
Collin 23:06
it Yeah, if you don't have those systems, you're that one, one, it shows that your business is not ready and to that staff member is not going to be able to thrive because they don't have a structure to work in. And there's the standards and accountability and expectations aren't aren't clearly laid out for them, whether they're a family member or not, you don't you don't have that structure in place. So that a you feel confident stepping away, and be so that that person knows exactly what they need to do when they need to do it. And more importantly, sometimes just how to do what you're expecting them to do.
Dominic 23:41
Yeah, and, and necessarily that we're teaching the business in a box that I do as well, you know, it's we have a big section about systemising the business you know, and you should have systems for everything really, you know, you should have systems for marketing, you should have systems for onboarding, you should have systems for upselling you should have systems for staffing, you know, systems for what you do, practically with the dogs every day should have systems for you know, how you split up the money that comes into the business, all this kind of thing, but we're primarily talking about systemising the, you know, the dog walk inside of the business of the pets inside of the business if you like so. So yeah. It's it's like it's it's the practicalities of you know, what do we do when we take the dog out of the van? You know, how do we decide where we're going to walk the dogs? What do we do before we let them off lead? You know what, what happens if there's an injury to a dog, you know, what's the procedure for that? And then everything you know from what what's the procedure from dropping the dog off at home, you know, how do we make sure that he's settled? What do we do after that? How do we what do we need to contact and let the client know about you know, and then and then and so on and so you just build this up build up. A systems and Procedures Manual if you like. That, like you said is a provides structure and gives confidence and allows the staff member to thrive. And it makes it really easy for you to, you know, keep check on what they're doing as well. Because the last thing you want Well, yeah, you know, I mean, it happens, you know, there's a lot of good staff members out there. But sometimes you have to go through a few bad ones to get to the good ones, right. and easiest way to, to weed out these people is to get them to follow some instructions, you know, and if they can't follow really simple instructions, then, you know, they're not going to get the follow on typical ones, right?
Collin 25:32
Well, and I'm thinking about that it also helps you as the manager and overseeing this stuff, it helps you be consistent, right? It helps, you know, okay, well, I held you accountable to this yesterday are the expectations were this yesterday, they're gonna be the same expectations tomorrow and the day after day after. So regardless of whether you wake up cranky, or forget your coffee, or you know, are late to work and frustrated, or stressed out, that they're lined out as a reminder to you to write helps you keep consistent in how you deal with your, your, your staff, and whether they're good, whether they're family or not, helps you be consistent in that.
Dominic 26:09
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, you know, we all you, most of us, I would say all, most of us work better, when we have a schedule, you know, a routine a list of things that we need to do, you know, I mean, my my day looks very different now. But it's, it's essentially a list of tasks, you know, so I wake up, you know, both the dogs, my own dogs, you know, I might do some exercise, I write an email, you know, and then I've got, like, whatever I've got on my list for that week is, and this is similar thing, you know, that you just need the staff member to be able to do all these different things, something else as well, they'll call it, one of the scroll back to what he was talking about a couple of questions previously, with regard to when you should be starting to do this, you should start to systemize your business. Now, you know, even if you even if you aren't planning on taking on staff members for any, any time at all, you should be doing this because it gives confidence to the clients to give confidence to the clients that you you know, your proper business, you know, you're not just a Johnny come lately who you know, it just picks it up to attach it to a fail, that's what they want, for a couple hours, and then and then text them home again, you know, you did buy ins have faith in you, if they can see, you know, you have a system that you work into, it gives confidence, and it just many, many more things than that. But it also it helps, it makes it much easier than for you to introduce a staff member into the business, a lot of people are held back from the thought that, you know, nobody can do the same job as me, the clients won't like anybody, I won't be able to trust anybody ever, like, you know, all those things are true. They're all those things. All of those things are thoughts that I had as well, you know, things that were holding me back back in 2013 2012. But, you know, if that was the case, then if that was true, then no business would ever grow ever beyond one person, you know, but we know that that that isn't the case, businesses do grow. And they grow because they have systems in place that allow you to kind of clone yourself, if you like, or Cloner a good enough version of yourself to be able to service to a standard that, you know, keeps the clients happy and keeps the clients calling back and keeps them referring you and I kind of think and yeah, having having a system in place this is is a crucial part of giving confidence giving confidence to yourself makes you feel better about the business gives the clients confidence is a great selling point as well, you know, if you're going to a meet and greet, and you have a, a systems and procedures manual that you can show them some examples from and show them why it's beneficial to them as well. That's usually gonna be a huge advantage over your competition. And yeah, again, it just sets you up nicely for when the when the staff member comes in hopefully they should be able to slot in fairly painlessly to your your routine,
Collin 29:04
right? Well, as you said, it gives it gives you confidence so that when times come when the time comes to bring on that staff member it you can you can step out in confidence and know Okay, I have all everything all the backend is in place, I just have to find the person and and on that. I know many of the I see a lot of questions coming across. How do I know who's a good fit? How do I find the right person to fit this or, you know, what do I need for my business when I'm hiring, that that sounds like somebody who who doesn't have their systems nailed down because as you write down as you get these things written in black and white on a piece of paper, they're gonna you're gonna easily see what kind of person is going to fit those as you hire. And as those resumes come across your desk, you can see okay, well these are my expectations. This is these are the systems I have in place. Well this person fit in there. Well this person fit in there and you can work through that a little bit better and faster too. Because again, you know you already have those before your meeting. Hire? Sure, yeah, yeah,
Dominic 30:01
you nailed it. Yeah, nailed it.
Collin 30:04
Yes, I'll give myself a gold star for that. Don't worry. We were talking a little bit earlier and Alex transitioned out of the business, and your wife came on the business full time. So that sounds like a really big transition in your family business. Tell us a little bit about that time.
Dominic 30:23
Yeah. So the it actually happened the other way around, where Beth joined the business in February. This was actually as a sort of, as a bit of a sort of wider public point really to make to people listen, you know, especially more experienced business owners. Yeah. Like, this is just like what happens, you know, like, what happens in business? Yeah, you know, if you don't like, if you don't like change, if you don't, like, you know, new things happening. If you don't like adopting, then get a job, you don't because you were, you know, busy. I said, business is just about, you know, how you deal with changes and challenges that come your way. So. So at the end, towards the end of November of 2019, I was sat down with my accountant, and we've gone through the figures, and we've had a really successful year. And I kind of half mentioned to her that one of the big aims that I had was to, for Beth to be able to leave her job as a teacher. So she was a deputy head teacher in a primary school, we do it for about 20 years, I really enjoyed it, loved it, but you know, quite a long time now, and quite stressful job. And yeah, ready for change. And I kind of knew that Beth would be good at all the things that I'm not very good at, basically. All of the all of the details stuff, you know, like, it's just why this is why this interview happened column because Beth is there to communicate and coordinate to make sure that I'm sitting here talking to you now, you know, as you as you've explained. And then yeah, so, so that was in the accountant said, Well, you know, what, what do you need to do to make that happen? And so I said, Well, good question. And then went away, you know, we did the figures and stuff. And, and it was basically to cut long story short, it was, it was fairly doable on paper, you know, and we made a couple of cutbacks, here and there. And then over Christmas, we talked about it some more. And then the January, she sort of floated the idea that the work that she was thinking about leaving, she didn't know when. And then another couple of things happened. And then long story short, she left in February, so she left him full time to the business in February. It was February, March time, yep. Just as the pandemic it actually. Yeah, and I mean, that was a, you know, a test of what it was a test, it was a test for everybody wasn't it, but it was certainly a test for us as well, because obviously, we're, we've sort of kissed goodbye to this regular income, that she was bringing in, not in substantial income either. And, and yeah, and then it's like, Alright, then, you know, again, this is like a challenge for me too, as we talked about, at the start with or with the bull market and thing, you know, it's like, I don't, you know, you've said you can do this, you put your money where your mouth is now, you know, you need to, you know, pandemic or no pandemic, we need to, we need to carry on with your business growth plans, as you had envisaged at the start. Yeah, you know, to make this move this move as, hopefully seamless as possible, you know, bet coming into the business, a big part of it, and you'll, you'll be able to identify with this. So one of the big just before the pandemic is obviously, but one of the things that I said to Beth was I said well, you know, the my plans that I have for the business there I think we'll be fine, you know, money wise, we'll be fine. And I said And anyway, like over the summer we're always really busy anyway over the summer with borders, you know, it always brings in like a really nice little borders boosted cash that that that will smooth over anything else.
34:09
Yeah, don't worry, there's nothing that can throw off this plane, everything will be fine. Oh.
Dominic 34:15
Well, yeah, but that's so this is what I'm talking about, you know, this, this these things I know. So yeah, and, you know, big you know, you give yourself a gold star, I get myself a gold star last year for being able to ride that out, you know, and, and continue to grow the business and boosted my confidence massively. And everything that I thought would happen happened with regards to Beth been able to free me up to do all of the things that I'm really good at, like writing, marketing, coaching, and she basically does everything else. And also, we have a newsletter that we get we put together once a month and all of the coaching materials, things like that. She handles all that. Now, back to the content. She puts it all together. She schedules everything you know appointments, all this kind of thing, it all just, it's all done onboarding of clients and coaching clients, all this kind of thing, all that is done better through the systems. And again, that we built up doing exactly the same things that we talked about with the dog walking. Exactly, same thing, Beth has a book that she's put together, you know, so, the system for everything, you know, and, and, yeah, and so, you know, it has been without its, its bumps along the way. But yeah, that was the first part of it with with Beth coming on board. Wow.
Collin 35:35
Well, and I love hearing that you're able to get dig into your own strengths, and, and fill in for each other's weaknesses, right. Like, I definitely see that with Megan and I she is She is like Beth, like, way, way much more on the details, and the scheduling and the structure and the very fine minutiae from from day to day. And that I don't, I don't know, you know, sometimes I'm like, I don't know, what I would do, if I didn't have her help in getting things scheduled, or being able to sit down and plan something out, because it does free me up to do things that I'm interested in. And Megan loves doing that kind of planning, like, that really fulfills her in our business like that, just, she loves doing those kind of things. So it's, it's, it's really nice when both people are able to be sitting in in a position of strength, because they're both interested in it, and really good at it, and it helps the business just just thrive that much more. Yeah, for
Dominic 36:29
sure. For sure, you know, and that's been a week, you know, so we work, we each have our own office, you know, in the house. So we were able to work kind of, you know, fairly independently. And then we're, when it comes to the knocking off time, you know, whatever it is, which go back to being kind of husband and wife, you know, and I have to say, it was eight 910 months down the line, kudos to you. And I'll probably, by the time this goes out, you know, it's been, it's been one of the best, it's probably one of the best things I've ever done.
Collin 37:01
Somebody listening to this, maybe they have thought about reaching out to a family member or or spouse to bring them on into the business and get them involved from your experiences and what you've seen work and other businesses, what kind of advice would you give to someone interested in family businesses,
Dominic 37:16
I think there has to be some kind of passion for the thing that you do as well, you know, so unlike an understanding as well, because, you know, I have lots of family members that I would, you know, happily have a beer with, and I do and when I'm allowed on socially distancing rules, don't prevent it from happening, you know, but I wouldn't necessarily trust them to drop a dog off, you know, or, or even interesting thing, you know, pick a pick a pupil, you don't mean that dogs don't jump in. So like, you know, you just you need them to anything to cat you know, if someone's confident, if someone's a competent person color, this is where, you know, reading resumes, and contacting previous employees, sorry, previous employers, all that kind of thing. This is really important, because you want somebody competent, somebody competent, who, they don't have to be super passionate about the business and dopes as you are, but as long as they're competent, that and they're reasonably passionate about it, you know, then they don't might get their hands dirty, then, you know, you got you got a good chance, you know, and then then it's about teaching them the systems, you know, so hey, I know you like, I know, you're passionate, but can you be passionate and do it my way, because if not, this ain't gonna work out, you know, right. Then I like to, I like to have a period of time where, you know, like, a trial period, where, you know, I'm working with someone and, you know, they're basically a bit like, what we would do the same thing with a dog, really, when a dog comes into the business, you know, a dog gets taken under the client and the dog has a trial period, he has certain things that he has to pass before he becomes a fully fledged client, a staff member is the same, you know, and they have to, they have to be able to do certain things a certain way, for a period of time, you know, before they move on to the next stage kind of thing, you know, whether that's just being provisionally a staff member of having a slightly reduced, you know, wage until they, you know, they might get some kind of bonus after so many months. But yeah, it's like, you know, you can't you can't just take somebody on doesn't matter whether they're a family member or not, and just think, right, that's it. Everything's gonna be okay. No, you know, because because it you know, that's like, you know, you you only do the only made that mistake once. Like, you want to, yeah, you know, then spamming this will be true in any organization. wouldn't matter whether you run in a post office or a call center, or whatever, you know, but like, you know, where we deal with people's pets here, you know, and, yeah, you know, you want to say to my guys, you know, I can, I could forgive you for like, and I could forgive you for you know, crashing the van, or, like, you know, even, you know, getting bitten off a dog or something like that, but I could never forgive you for, you know, being being nasty to a dog or being being rude to a client, you know, mean, like, those type of things are like red lines, you know, like, and then, you know, you cross them or you even come close to cross them. And like, that's a game over, you know, and and, yeah, I mean, again, we've been very fair with all the staff members as well, you know, and I think we treat them well. bonuses, we have nights out all this kind of thing. But you know, this is serious, isn't serious running a business is serious thing, you know, and people's people's pets as lives are at stake here. So yeah, you want to want to treat it seriously and start at the top, you know, if you if you're half assed about it and lackadaisical about it, then that's only going to feed through into the organization.
Collin 41:00
Yeah, yeah, what I hear there is if you're looking at a family member, or you're in talks with a family member of bringing them into the business and getting them involved, treat them as an employee, as we mentioned earlier, hold them to the same standards, hold them accountable, because it's your business at stake its clients lives at stake. And you don't want that level of care to be any different, just because they're your family member. So take that seriously, and make sure that they're on the same page to that they really understand, hey, I'm bringing you on, you know, Kathy, because, you know, I, I see you're interested in this, but even though you're my my cousin, or your My aunt, you're going to go on this provisionary period, because that's what how my business works. That's everything that goes into this business. So keeping those expectations really in the forefront too, so that they understand what what they're getting into.
Dominic 41:52
Yeah, absolutely. And then you've got, you know, you've got no, this is just about being upfront with people, you know, and it's easy to do the same with a client, you know, you you know, say, hey, look, you know, at the meet and greet, you might say, Okay, now, you know, let me let me tell you, I met you in the dog, and we've talked about your problems. Let me tell you about what we do. And then you know, and then tell you about what's Well, let me tell you, what I what I commit to doing. And let me tell you what your what I expect you to commit to as well, you know, and you know, you're going to get your, your, your order in for that next week, by Sunday, you know, are you going to pay me in advance, or you're going to pay me by Wednesday, or whatever, you know, and if you don't, well, then you know, you're not guaranteed to get walks that week, you know, and like, if you talk to people from the start, well, then that, you know, they can either say, well, that's no good for me, in which case, you say no problem. Bye, bye, you know, but you know, more, you know, it's when you when you don't lay out what you expect. And then you just, you know, you come at it afterwards. And I've had a half assed where, well, that's when you start getting problems, you know, and you see it, you read it, you really do want to be the one with your staff and with your clients, who lays out those kind of rules, you know, because people just, generally people just fall into line, you know, people just say, okay, that's, that's how it is, you know, that's it, that's how it is in your business, you know, he likes to be paid by, you know, four o'clock on a Sunday, you know, I mean, I know, if I don't get paid by then then he ain't gonna walk my dogs the week after, you know, like, people know that, you know, then. And then, you know, this is not to say that it's like a military camp here, Colin, you know, because, like, we bend over backwards for a lot of our, like, long term clients, you know, as I'm sure you do, as well. And yeah, you know, we, you know, we break the rules occasionally, you know, like, we have rules for contacting us and stuff. But if someone has an emergency, you know, then then obviously, we'll we'll be there to help them out. Same as we would have a staff member, you know, and, but, you know, it's like, yeah, it's You got it, you gotta have some rules. And some, and I think that would be a good takeaway, even for people from this podcast would be to say, you know, am I am I running my business that way right now, you know, regardless of whether I have a one staff or whether I have systems in place properly and the Procedures Manual yet, you know, do i'm not communicating what the values of the business sign up because that's really important.
Collin 44:18
Right again, and as you said, it starts at the top it starts with you and the leadership and the directives and how you operate because family or not, they're going to look to you and see okay, Is this okay for them? Is this how they operate? Can I get away with this? Because that's what they do and, and really just set that example. And as you said, lead from the top. I love that.
Dominic 44:36
Yeah, not easy to do all the time. But no, no, no.
Collin 44:43
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Dominic 46:13
Yeah, so this is this was something that I was threatening to do. Yeah, it really was, it was. It was originally. This is the this is the when lists don't work so well sometimes. So this was originally on my list to do back in 2017. should have put together the was scheduled to put together this inbox anyway, one thing got in the way of another, and I kind of never got around to it. And then last year, I said like this, and this is the year that I need to do this. And because I previously in 20, in 2018, I ran to business boot camps up in Sunderland, and we did a dog walkers business boot camp, the whole weekend, where we basically net out a lot of the stuff that eventually went into the business in a box. And we did a dog trainers business in a box type weekend to business boot camp. So I already had a lot of the stuff. And obviously I've got a lot of dog walkers within my community right now I've I've helped a lot of people to do exactly the same things, what I did, you know, leave a job and start a dog walking business, not just that, but leaving a well paid job to, you know, leave a well paid job with prospects and start a premium dog walking business, you know, that is that anybody can start a pet business, you know, anybody can like start a Facebook page, buy six leads from the pet shop, get some leaflets printed and say they're a pet business, you know, but like, you know, having a plan in place to be able to leave a well paid job and start a premium pet business that takes more. And I've done that many, many times. I've helped many, many people to do that. So I kind of had all this in place. I've helped people scale and grow and take on staff members. And so it was sort of the next logical thing really was like, hey, let's put all this together into a business in a box program. And so yeah, the walk yourself wealthy dog walkers business in a box that was put together. Well completely put together and delivered last year.
Collin 48:19
Wow. So all of this that you have you've put together you've taken all these resources and put them in a literal box. Oh, who is this for? Someone listening to this? Is this for a brand new person who's just started? Or can someone who's been in the game for a while benefit from this?
Dominic 48:36
Yeah, so good question. Really good question. I've had sounds like a bit of a cop out for me to stay. It's for any pet any dog walking business. But like it really is you want especially for a new one, really, you know, like you, because what you want is ideally, what I did when I started my dog walking dog adventure business back in 2011. That wasn't typical, you know, so that wasn't being premium, offering something different charging twice as much as my competitors in my town. That's people don't normally do that, you know, and, but when you do do that, your business grows slightly slower than it would if you were charging, you know, rock bottom prices that everybody else is charging. But it grows much more strongly with better clients who use you more often and they refer you more readily. And yeah, you just you basically you end up with a business where you need half as many clients as everybody else and you make twice as much money, which means you're doing half as much work and, you know, twice as many headaches. And it's, it's, it's not it's not a typical way to do it. So 100% this is for people who are just thinking about starting out. However, you know, obviously by the same token, when people only come into my world, it's usually because They've made all the same mistakes that most business owners make, they looked around saw what everybody else was charging charge the same, offer the same kind of services, and now they're struggling to stand out from the competition, you know, so. So what my program enables you to do is to build a build a business, or rebuild the business, reposition a business, around the kind of passions that you have, you know, the kind of dogs that you want to walk, the kind of services that you want to offer, the kind of people that you want to work with. And this is how you end up, we end up creating everybody on the cost, who's done the program ends up creating kind of a unique type of business, you know, that is personal to them, that contains their values, you know, that's what I help people to bring out and put into their businesses, their values, their story, their passion. And yeah, so we have people who have created solo dog walking businesses, you know, where they just walk in one dog, we can people who are doing multiple dogs, for people who specialize in gundogs, we got people who are already had businesses as well, who have really transformed their business from, like one lady Lynn, she had like three staff members, she was feeling quite burned out after about 10 years of running the business. And she increased the prices a couple of times introduced the upsells put the right kind of promotional material out there, got rid of, like a third of our clients, you know, got rid of a third of our clients, one of our staff members. Now she worked less hours, she got all of her energy and a passion back, she's earning more money, you know, it's like, it's, it's, uh, yeah, there's without too much snuck up on us, it's like, I've seen a lot of different businesses, people who have seven or eight staff, you know, people who are just starting out, and that there's usually there's a different kind of key that needs turning, you know, depending on where you are in your pet business journey, but I've tried to include all of the kind of elements into that into the sort of 10 modules of the of the program. Sure.
Collin 52:12
Well, it just sounds like that, you know, it's something that's going to help you find, find in hone in on your passion, and then put that into your business. So whether you've just started or haven't even started yet, or you're sitting here yours in going, huh, maybe I need to change that this is sounds like something that that we could all all benefit from so what what could someone expect from it? from the from the program from the box? Is it a literal box? Or do I download this? I guess is my first question.
Dominic 52:45
Yes, it's available as a as a downloadable program at any time with templated offline offerings, you know, with templated offline materials as well. You know, so we cover everything you know, from what to put into a price increase left to you know, what should you What should a newsletter look like? How should you layout your leaflets, you know, what should a service menu look like, you know, what kind of upsells should you have, what should you take to a meet and greet you know, so we have people have the pack that everything is templated so you can literally like fill in the blanks, that as well as the, the, the 10 modules of the course or so what I do is I have the course they're all of the time that the box I should say, that's there all of the time for people to just get as like a self study but also two or three times a year, at least twice a year, I kind of pull it off the shelf and I do a live version where I redeliver the content again in a live format people get access to you know q&a is with myself and the other members who are taking part of that time and yeah, you know having a I mean it depends how you like to work with I guess if you're fine as somebody who self studies that's great. If you need a bit more of a kick up the ass you know, want a bit more help and assistance then a couple of times a year I do the live version, which is a bit more expensive. But you know you obviously get my my inputs on a on a kind of a weekly basis you know, so So yeah, there's there's a couple of options for people all of the stuff that I do is is like that there's I mean they don't just I should mention as well they get they also get access to my professional dog walkers Academy as well which is uh that programs a couple years old, but that basically walks people through like exactly what I do on the walks you know, like the systems that we talked about earlier. You know, the all the systems for controlling training. enriching the dogs lives whilst you are exercising them safely, you know, provide a safe stimulating experience for the dogs. The people who do the business in a box they get access to that as well. So it's kind of like everything that you need to promote the business, the practically run and systemize the business that also helps you to deliver like a fantastic service as well. Or to, you know, deliver, to give you service a bit of a boost. You know, this is actually a big thing, I should mention that as well, you know, a lot of people have, a lot of people come into my world have a lot of hang ups, about increase in prices, or even putting together a newsletter or a leaflet or something, because they're, they don't feel they don't feel good enough, you know, they're like, Hey, you know, I don't feel like I offer anything different, anything better, anything special compared to what my competitors do, you know, and usually, when you do a bit of digging, you find that, you know, they do offer something different, they just haven't accentuated enough in the market. And, but this is a way as well, for me to say, hey, look, you know, you want to be better, it isn't that hard to be better than what most of the other people in your town do, you know, and this, here's the template for you to help you to do that, you know, and so you could get better at the the practical side of the the dog walking dog adventure business, and then that will hopefully boost your confidence enough. So you feel like shouting about it more in the marketing that you do.
Collin 56:06
Yeah, I mean, competence has come up a few times here while we're talking, you know, confidence to bring on and employees and then confidence to talk about yourself and competence to look at your your services and go, you know what, I do a really good job. And sometimes that takes time, sometimes it takes just learning a little bit more, because I know I know you're really big on on making the walks a real adventure, right, making them a lot more than just letting them run through a field or, or letting them walk alongside you. Like, there's a lot that goes into that, because you're trying to make it the best service possible and make it really different. And it's things like that, where we look at our own services, where I think a lot of times, we might not even realize how different and unique our service services inherently are. Just because we're the ones offering them, right. That's just how we operate. And we might not know to lean into those as strengths. And as ways to separate ourselves and to really lean into that as a marketing thing to to sell ourselves on. Yeah, this is, you know, I do my walks this way. And that's, that's, you know, so if you like those kind of walks for your dogs, I'm the person for you.
Dominic 57:17
Yeah, exactly, yeah, you jump digging that out, you know, and this is sort of why I would recommend the, the live version, really, of the of the program, although, with the sort of off the shelf version, you do get access to previous q&a s and stuff that we've done in there, but the
57:33
you
Dominic 57:35
get the confidence is key, like you said, you know, and if you it's, it's about being able to say, this is what I do, and this is this is how it's beneficial for you, you know, this is what I do, this is why it's different. And this is why it is beneficial for you. And that's essentially what all marketing is about, it's about constructing, you're communicating your service, in a way it's like a solution to someone's problems, you know, and, and if you if you're a solo Walker, then you're going to be able to tap into the fears and concerns that dog owners might have in your town about their, their dog being bundled over a step down or bitten by another dog, you know, and that plenty of people out there who will be more than happy to pay a premium for a one to one service, and they won't be interested in anybody else, you just have to communicate that. Similarly, for the people who you know, they have a good dog, you know, they want their dog to do good dog type activities that tap into their good dog nature, even though they have no intention of ever taken the dog, you know, beaten or anything like that. They want to provide something that gives the dog what he inherently needs, well, you just need to communicate that with your market and you know, and so on and so on and so on. And so that this is how this actually makes it really easy to grow your business because we strip them back into kind of nishinomiya that we we talked about in the last podcast but like, you know you when you have a clear market and message it sings out, you know, it sings out and it rises above the general noise that all of the competition American all talking about same kinds of thing. Your message sings out to the people in your town who you really want it to resonate with, you know, and then you couple that with an effective medium for communicating that message which is something else I can go into in a business in a box as well you know, so not just rely on social media, doing some effective Pay Per Click marketing, partnering up with other pet businesses in your town who can help you to get the word out there you know and this once you have all these wheels turning it's a real momentum you know, and yeah, this is behind my success with my own business and with the you know, the the other people I've helped as well,
Collin 59:53
right, right positioning yourself as this is my services our solution to your problem. You know, I think you even have a section on your own website that says, you know, tell me about what problem you're having. And it's after, after the clients read through your services you offer and everything like that, you know, they're able to see exactly how you are going to solve that problem for them. And, as you mentioned, it takes some time to think about that. And really put that into some context and write a good copy for your website and get some some marketing terms around that. But once you find your strengths, that's where that confidence comes from. Because you know, you are solving people's problems. And your clients are exactly the ones that you need to be serving. And as you said, that that is about niching down. And that is about honing in on where your skill sets are and where you want to be in your market.
Dominic 1:00:46
Yeah, you did, right. And, you know, that's a process that you laid out there, you know, it's one, when we say it out loud, it didn't even sound that difficult, but actually doing it. That's where that's kind of where the box comes in. Because, you know, everything is laid out for you that okay, right? Where do we start? So how do we find out what people's problems are? Well, we need to do this first, you know, and then we need to take that information, then we put it here, you know, and then it's like, so that one thing kind of bleeds on to the next. And then we deal with lots of things in there as well, like, you know, money mindset, and, and, you know, upsells, you know, and what do we do once we get a client? How do we onboard them? You know, all these kinds of things. And, and it's, you know, it's fantastic for me to to get feedback from the guys who have gone when they go through the program, you know, because naturally, some of you know, they're a bit skeptical. You know, even when they've signed up, you know, when they've signed up to the to the program, they might be a bit like, Oh, you know, I don't know if this is gonna work for me. But then, you know, when you get feedback from people sending you emails saying, Hey, you know, I did this, this happens. Now, you know, I can't, I can't believe I didn't think this was gonna happen. But blown behold, Tom was right. You know, and it's working, you know, and it didn't happen straight away. But yeah, it's just having that process to photo.
Collin 1:02:07
Right, right. Well, as usual, I've really enjoyed talking with you today. I've enjoyed talking about some of the ins and outs of running a family business and having confidence in ourselves enough to market ourselves and talk about our services to our clients. And then learning about your dog walking business in a box and all the exciting things that you have going on. Where can people check out that and get in touch with you?
Dominic 1:02:33
Yeah, cool. So they can go to check out the box itself, they can go to grow your pet business fast.com forward slash biz box, I'll be running a another dog walker challenge this month. So if you go to grow your pet business fast forward slash challenge, you can sign up for the challenge there. I've got a podcast as well, which you guys have been on. That's the poodle to Pitbull, pet business podcast on iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your pods. And, yeah, if you wanted to an even easier way to get a bit of free information. You could go to grow your pet business fast.com forward slash free dash copy, and you can get a free copy of my pet business Bible. Walk yourself wealthy. And yeah, that will give you the in there, I shared a kind of Five golden keys to a successful pet business, some of which we've touched upon today. Yeah, immediately. I've really enjoyed it. Thanks, again for having me on.
Collin 1:03:35
Yeah, Dom has been a real pleasure. And I'll have links to all that in the show notes. So listeners can click right through that and get connected with you again, it's been a real pleasure. Dom, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
Dominic 1:03:47
Welcome, buddy. Anytime I'll speak to you soon, hopefully,
Collin 1:03:49
yes. The key that I walked away from after talking with Dom about working with family in business is the importance of being consistent with them, and treating them the exact same way. However hard and difficult it may be but treating them the exact same way. As we treat any other employee or any other one that we would ask to come and work in our business with us. It's that consistency. It's that reliability and predictability not just for ourselves, but for anybody working with us. And even for our clients. That gives us a lot of strength, and a lot to grow off of and to move forward with. We want to thank our friends of the show time to pet and pet perennials for making this week's show possible. Check out the links in the show notes or head on over to pet sitter confessional.com Ford slash episode, Ford slash 151. To see more detail there. Thank you so so so much for listening this week. We really appreciate it. It means a whole lot that you show up that you listen that you engage that you share, and that you're a part of this amazing community. Megan and I wish you a wonderful weekend and we'll be back again soon.
