623: Helping Pet Birds Thrive with Dr. Jennifer Graham
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How can we make sure we’re providing the best care possible for pet birds? Dr. Jennifer Graham, President of the Association of Avian Veterinarians, joins the show to discuss the crucial partnership between avian vets and pet sitters. From common health issues and behavioral cues to transport tips and nutrition red flags, Jennifer shares decades of wisdom to help pet sitters level up their bird care. She emphasizes the importance of consistency, observation, and cleaning routines, especially when dealing with exotic species. With practical resources and a collaborative mindset, pet sitters can confidently expand their services to feathered clients.
Main Topics
Understanding avian behavior and health
Nutrition and feeding red flags
Emergency signs and first aid prep
Importance of cleaning and routines
Vet-sitter collaboration tips
Main takeaway: “The more you know about birds, the better you’ll be at picking up subtle things.”
🐦 Pet sitters, don’t let your first bird client be your first time learning about avian care. From their subtle signs of illness to their specific dietary needs, birds require observant, informed caregivers. Whether it’s checking that seed hulls aren’t mistaken for food or knowing when fluffing means trouble, every detail matters. Take time to learn, ask questions, and work closely with avian vets. Your bird clients—and their humans—will thank you.
About our guest:
Dr. Jennifer Graham is the President of the Association of Avian Veterinarians and a leading voice in exotic animal medicine. With a veterinary degree from Auburn University and specialty training from UC Davis and the University of Georgia, Dr. Graham has spent her career advancing the care of birds and exotic pets. She’s taught at Tufts University, worked in emergency and specialty practices, and now consults with veterinarians while practicing part-time in Alabama. A lifelong bird lover, she also shares her home with an Amazon parrot, a budgie, and some chickens.
Links:
Association of Avian Veterinarians: https://www.aav.org
Find an Avian Vet: https://www.aav.org/page/find-a-vet
Avian Owner Resources & PDFs: https://www.aav.org/page/pet-owners
Lafeber Bird Care Education: https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/
Harrison’s Bird Foods (Care Guides): https://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/
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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pet Sitter Confessional, its hosts, or sponsors. We interview individuals based on their experience and expertise within the pet care industry. Any statements made outside of this platform, or unrelated to the topic discussed, are solely the responsibility of the guest.
A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Avian care, pet sitters, avian veterinarians, nutrition, health issues, emergency transport, behavioral changes, cleaning routines, enrichment, client communication, veterinarian collaboration, bird handling, exotic species, educational resources, Association of Avian Veterinarians
SPEAKERS
Dr. Jennifer Graham, Collin
Collin 00:00
Welcome to pet sitter confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. Today, we're brought to you by our friends at Pine to pet and pet sitters International, a big topic that's actually growing in interest with a lot of pet sitters as they look to see what kind of pets they can care for, and a part of the industry that we have had very little focus on personally, has been the avian side of pet care. And so today, we are really excited to have Dr Jennifer Graham, the President of the Association of avian veterinarians, on the show to talk about avian care, to talk about how we can help bridge the gap between pet sitters and avian veterinarians and information that we just need to know and be be make sure we understand. So Jennifer, I'm really excited and happy to have you on the show, and for you taking your time out of your day to come and speak with us. For those who aren't familiar with with you and your work, please tell us a little bit more about
Dr. Jennifer Graham 00:56
yourself. I can do that. And thank you for the invitation. I appreciate it. So I've been out of veterinary school for a while. I graduated in 1999 from Auburn University, and I did when I was there, I did some work with the Auburn Raptor Center, and got used to working with birds. And I had a background with wildlife, but it was working with the raptors that then sparked my interest in going further with avian medicine. I went to a conference to present it was actually a case of an owl that lost its eye, and so we had done in ocular prosthetic in an owl, and I was presenting that at a conference when one of the people in the audience had asked me if I was interested in doing an exotic animal internship at the University of Georgia. And I thought, well, that might be interesting. So then that's pretty much how things took off. Is I was at Georgia for a year doing an exotic internship. I was then went to UC Davis for a residency program. There, I was up in Seattle at a specialty practice for a few years. Then I went to Boston. I worked at Angel animal Medical Center for six years, doing exotics, birds and exotics. And then I taught at Tufts University for a decade. Most recently, came back down to Alabama, where I am from, to be close to family. So now I am doing some clinical work and consulting, and kind of have the best of of all the different things, and have my own birds at home as well.
Collin 02:25
Oh, what, what kind of birds do you have? I
Dr. Jennifer Graham 02:27
have an Amazon parrot, a little budgie, also known as parakeet, and four chains.
Collin 02:33
Oh, can't forget the chickens right there.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 02:38
Those eggs are gold these days. Oh, I right,
Collin 02:42
at least they're earning their keep, right
Dr. Jennifer Graham 02:43
more than usual, absolutely well. So what
Collin 02:47
was it about that time at the at the at the raptor center that really attracted you and got you interested, given kind of, you know, everything else that was going
Dr. Jennifer Graham 02:56
on, I feel like, Well, part of it was sitting in class all day is pretty rough when you start vet school. And I had gone from handling animals, being around animals all the time, to being stuck in class, and the first couple of years, really not doing much with animals. And so I think that that just the interest to spend time with animals again, and then birds are just so cool. They're really neat. And I didn't realize I had done a little bit with birds, but never realized I learned so much. I did presentations with the Raptor Center and had my presentation owl. I had a little barn owl that would that, that I would talk about. And when we did these educational events for people, I learned so much about birds, and the more that I learned, the more interested I got. And so, yeah, I think it just, it kind of went
Collin 03:43
from there, kind of just going down the rabbit hole there. And I love how you that you mentioned you were finally free from the classroom and had your hands on something, and you're like, oh, wait, this is why I was, I was here, and why I wanted to be doing this in the first place.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 03:59
I do have to say the first time, I think, because I always wanted to be a vet since I can remember, but I remember one of the first things that sparked my interest was we lived on a little hobby farm. We had a bunch of goats, and our baby goats were dying, and a vet had come out to look at them. I think the first vet didn't really know what was going on, and then the second vet figured out they had parasites, deworm them, and I just remember thinking, I want to be the vet that saved the baby goat. And so that's I do remember that as one of my first memories of this is, I want to be a vet.
Collin 04:30
Well, if it's kind of like being a super sleuth, right, following the trail of clues,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 04:35
since they cannot talk, it's absolutely true.
Collin 04:38
Well, so you're also the president of the Association of avian veterinarians, what's, what's a little bit about the history of that association and kind of, what's its its mission?
Dr. Jennifer Graham 04:48
So with the Association of avian veterinarians, I've been involved with them one way or another since vet school, and I do appreciate how they have a lot of programs in place to support students. Students in vet schools, because there's not a lot of opportunities out there, and a lot of vet schools don't have avian and exotic programs. They don't really have those sorts of educational opportunities. And so my original sort of getting into AAB was from a standpoint of education, but it actually started in 1980 and originally it was, and it's ironic, because right now we're doing, we're actually doing a little bit of investigating the actual origins of the group, and we are giving some lifetime honorary memberships to some of the original founders of the Association of avian veterinarians. And it really started out with the American Federation of aviculture and then a couple of other veterinary organizations that would have these meetings, but there really wasn't a huge focus on avian medicine. And so a lot of the practitioners that were seeing more birds were getting frustrated with the lack of, you know, a place to centralize and get more education. And ironically, you know, that was back when birds could be imported into the US, and there were close to a million birds a year that were, that were coming into the country. And since then that that's no longer happening, fortunately. But at the time, there were a huge number of birds being imported, and so there was a need for education. And so really, it just started out with a few people. Started out with their first meeting. I believe they may have had 100 people at one of their first meetings, not, not, not a ton of vets. And then it just grew out from there. But if I could, since I'm the president, and I want to tell you exactly, I want to read you the mission statement, so it can be very you know, so I don't miss anything. The Association of avian veterinarians is diverse, global professional organization dedicated to advancing and promoting avian health, welfare and conservation through education, advocacy and science.
Collin 06:58
I love that there's so much tied up into that to know that the organization, the association, really had its foundings in a time where there sounds like there's just a lot of unknowns happening. And you mentioned with a million birds being imported now, who like the cases that they were seeing, things that they were coming across, it sounds like it was really just a time where I could sense like there's a lot of frustration, of we got to get our hands around this and got good coming together to figure out exactly what we're going to do. And that education parts really critical for educating not just, I'm sure it's not just the general public, but also educating the practitioners and then the owners as well,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 07:33
absolutely, and it's and it's really to me to think back on how that must have felt to be seeing these species that maybe no one else had even seen. No one knew what blood normals were like, what their diet was, all of these things were just the the unknown. And so getting that information disseminated, and even learning those that sort of information, and we still, obviously, we still are learning,
Collin 07:57
yeah, we often take for granted of the ability to walk in and go, you know, my my animal, my pet, is sick, right? And we always then look at, well, what should normal levels be? And we take for granted of, well, somebody knows what normal is, right? Somebody knows what the range is supposed to be, okay? Now, now we have to do something
Dr. Jennifer Graham 08:16
about that. Yeah. And if you look back on some of those studies, it's like they had 10 of a particular species. That's like, Oh, yeah. So kind of limited,
Collin 08:27
right? Well, well, so other than the, I guess you know that you mentioned the stopping importing, and it sounds like there's just a lot more interest here. What other changes in avian veterinary medicine have you seen over the course of your career, and you know the connections that you have?
Dr. Jennifer Graham 08:44
You know that it is an interesting question, and and I was thinking back on when I was in my internship, it some of the viral diseases have changed, like viruses or viruses, the diseases are the same, but what I mean by that is things that used to be more common are less common now. And then, things that were not as common then are more common now. And so there's definitely been a shift in the disease, and I think part of that is just with education and with information that has been gained, vaccination programs, things like that. But I would say the diseases, in some ways, have you know, changed over time. The reference materials. Back in the day, there were maybe two or three books, maybe that had some information about birds, but now there's, there's a lot more reference material in terms of textbooks, in terms of online opportunities, a lot more CE events, and then the equipment that we use, you know, back in the day, just very rudimentary types of things, like when the AAV first started, there weren't even bird incubators like that was basically like when incubators first started, because there were egg incubators, but not even that was part of why it. Organized. My understanding is there was an avian incubator design like in that pamphlet, was one of the ways they marketed to the avian veterinarians to get involved. So so many things have changed since, since those days. And then I remember when I was in my internship and residency program, most of what I did in terms of studying for boards and reviewing articles, it was all printed, you know, paper print copies in the library. And now there's so much more opportunity with digital, you know, online sorts of things. And so that's that's been a great change in a lot of ways.
Collin 10:36
Yeah, moving. It's, again, things we take for granted of information and how it can be transmitted from one person to the next, feeling like, oh, I have a paper that of a research study that just came out, and there's only one, there's only like, two copies right now, and it feels like you get something that's kind of smuggled in whenever you can pass it off to somebody else, when you're like, oh, wow, I have, I
Dr. Jennifer Graham 10:56
have this information now, Absolutely, what
Collin 11:00
are some common health issues or concerns that you see that specifically, that pet sitters you know coming and going should be aware of, or at least know are out there absolutely,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 11:10
and I would say it's not even just birds, it's all exotic species. I know a lot of the pet sitters will be seeing other species besides just birds, but by far the biggest thing we see in terms of our pet birds and other exotic species, it's husbandry issues. How they're kept in nutrition is such a huge issue, because we see many cases that have underlying malnutrition. And with these pets, you know, birds and other types of prey species, they hide their signs of illness until they're quite sick, and so most of the time, they're going to mask disease. And so it's very helpful when people can be aware of some of the subtle changes a bird might show when it's ill. And what I find to be the case is oftentimes these birds come in through emergency, and they're on death's door, and the client's perception is, it just happened. They just saw this, and the bird will be emaciated like clearly, it's had disease for a while, but it's just that it's with the feathers that cover everything. It's not very obvious. And so even if pet sitters are aware of, for example, good nutrition and knowing if that patient is not necessarily on the best diet, not only can you educate your clients, but then you can also be aware that that's going to be a risk factor for that animal to be sick. We also see a lot of reproductive issues. So keep in mind that in captivity, oftentimes these birds are raised by humans by hand. They may be pulled from the parents early. The birds may be, I'll say, Malin printed. They may think their flock is humans, and in many cases, it is, but we can see these birds that become very bonded to their owners, and they can have reproductive issues, even without a mate. And so it is quite common that we see birds egg laying, especially as the days get longer in the spring, we see a lot of birds present for egg binding, medical issues around reproductive disease, and there can be behavioral changes, like even if they're, you know, a person walks in the room and the bird starts regurgitating. Sometimes that's a sign of affection, which is really strange, but they would normally regurgitate to feed their mate. And so even some of the some of the things like that, knowing what could be behavioral versus illness. But I think the big thing is knowing that they can have subtle signs. And many times, owners may not be aware that they are sick. And so when an owner leaves, that can be a stressful time for the bird, and maybe the bird's been hiding something. Sometimes it can unfortunately start showing signs of illness as soon as the owner leaves, which is not fine, well, right?
Collin 13:51
Because it's got the stress stacking of it was already, you know, hiding, and all of a sudden we've changed a routine. New people are coming and going, and so it does just kind of elevated all the more in that in that time, absolutely. Have you heard of time to pet? Susan the pet gal, has this to say, time
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Collin 14:26
If you're looking for new pet sitting software, give time to better try. Listeners of our show will save 50% off your first three months by visiting time.com/confession Now you mentioned the the good nutrition and diet, and I know a lot of our listeners are thinking of, you know, they're maybe coming from a dog and cat world of, yeah, if I walked in and a dog was being fed hot dogs and was drinking, you know, you know, Diet Coke, I might have concerns about this dog. What are things that we that would be red flags we walk into a client and they're walking. Us through their routine, because it is hard, right? The client is telling us what they feed and what we have to, in some instances, be deferential to them and go, Okay, this is what you do and how you do it. What are some red flags as far as nutrition that we need to be looking out for as they're telling us what their routine is?
Dr. Jennifer Graham 15:15
I would say, if you go to the average pet store and look on the shelves and whatever is there is bad, that's awful, but there in the past, we used to when we didn't know as much about avian nutrition, a lot of the diets were completely seed based. And now we know that seed based diets can be deficient in 27 plus vitamins and minerals, and we can see all kinds of issues that happen. Especially Think about if a bird goes to lay an egg in the egg shell itself is so much calcium, if their diet is deficient, and they try to make an egg, they don't have enough calcium, they get into some problems. And so even just if you walk in and all you see that bird eating a seed. There can be variation depending on species, but that could be a red flag that there could be some nutritional deficiencies. And so we do recommend for most species that they have at least a portion of the diet, if not the majority of the diet is a formulated, pelleted diet, because then they have nutrition that's essentially built in the entire food item, versus birds that are going to be picking and choosing things that taste better to them. It is great if they can have fresh vegetables. We tend to say, you know, like be concerned if the bird is eating things like animal proteins, dairy, meats, things like that, are red flags. And it's also good that if pet sitters are aware, things like avocado and chocolate are toxic, birds are very sensitive to fumes in the environment, so you have to be very careful about cleaning products, things that could cause respiratory irritation. So there are certain things that are going to be different about birds compared to your typical sort of dog and cat.
Collin 17:02
Now the cleaning products is a really good thing to point out, because I know most pet sitters don't provide their own cleaning products. They use what's in the household, but if we come from another person's house where maybe we had to clean up vomit and diarrhea or we did a big cleaning job on somebody else's home, we do need to be aware of what we're bringing into that client's home, that if they have a bird, but if it's the next one on our list that we're driving to. So either making sure that we've got plenty of time in between those visits, or possibly a change of clothes, depending on what exactly we
Dr. Jennifer Graham 17:33
were cleaning with, absolutely and even just thinking about going from house to house, if you do have one house, you're going to where a bird has been showing a sign of illness. For example, you need to be very careful about not going into the next house with where you could introduce disease. So just being even aware of things like
Collin 17:50
that. Now, you mentioned a couple things about about behaviors and things like that. What are some specific red flags for the birds that we need to be on the lookout for. You mentioned things could change. What are we looking out for? And what do we want to watch on those birds for?
Dr. Jennifer Graham 18:08
Well, one of the big things, which I think it's probably pretty intuitive, but anytime there's bleeding, that is an emergency, and so birds do not have much blood to lose. And so there can be situations where blood feathers get damaged, potentially, nails get caught in something. So if you ever come in and see that a bird is having bleeding, that's no doubt, an emergency, but also it's good to be aware that if birds eat items that have red colors, like if they're eating red fruits, or if they're eating a toy with red dyes that can also pass through the droppings. And so sometimes it can look like a bird is having abnormal droppings, and it could be something they've eaten. So that can be a little bit tricky signs of respiratory distress. And so with birds, one of the things to look for is open beak breathing. They should not be breathing with their beak open. They should be breathing through their nostrils. But if they were to have some sort of respiratory distress or abnormality, they might be trying to have open beak breathing. Also, if there's a tail Bob, if birds are in respiratory distress, their tail tends to move up and down, and part of that is because birds do not have a diaphragm like we do, and so their front, the keel bone, the front of their chest has to move in and out to allow breathing. And so if there's any sort of compromise with the respiratory tract, they actually have to use different muscles to try to help with breathing. And that can show up as the tail moving up and down. And so that's also an important thing for people to realize in terms of the breathing and not having the diaphragm sort of thing. If you do, for some reason, have to, like, if the bird escapes. Because even if clients tell you their birds are trimmed, they can mold like, just assume every bird is flighted. Just assume that, but invariably, a bird's going to escape. Like it just every now and then will happen. And so if you do. Have to get a bird that has escaped out of the cage, just be careful when you're putting it back in the cage. You never want to squeeze across the middle, across that keel bone, because that can restrict their breathing. And so just being aware of some of the basic handling information, if they were to get out, we want to be careful that we're not squeezing them hard, for example, yeah, and I know
Collin 20:21
that's something that's something that's come up for us in our in our business, is, you know, some clients will say, Oh, you don't need to get my bird out of their cage. I just need you to, you know, swap some food in and out, because they're not going to be gone that long. Others will want us to get the bring the bird out and make sure the doors are closed so they don't, you know, fully escape, and also turn off the ceiling fans. That's always really
Dr. Jennifer Graham 20:40
important, very important.
Collin 20:44
But it's reminder that even if the client has requested, we don't bring the bird out for various reasons, that we spend time watching and observing and looking at the bird, instead of just focusing on the cleaning and the feeding and things like that, and then moving on to the next thing, 100% and
Dr. Jennifer Graham 21:00
that's not even just for pet sitters. That's for veterinarians as well. Because when birds are a prey species, you know they're going to hide their signs of illness. And if you just immediately go in there and start doing things, you're not going to pick up on the subtle signs. And so when you go into the house, maybe do a few other things, watch the bird, get an idea of what's going on before you ever even do anything that's going to distract that bird. So you'll pick up on some of those, those subtle signs. And then I guess I should also add, if a bird is ever fluffed up, if a bird is ever on the bottom of the cage, birds, when they groom, sometimes they fluff up their feathers briefly, but they should go. They should be sleek. Those feathers should be flat. If they're sitting there just huddled with the feathers puffed out, that means that they're cold, and they're trying to basically have an insulating area, you know, air between the feathers and the body to warm up. And so that's a sign of illness, for sure, if the bird is not responding very well into sitting there fluffed, but for sure, bottom of the cage, straining behavior, anything like that, would also be an emergency. And then, I think it goes without saying, if a bird was having neurologic signs, seizures, you know, I think that people would know that. But just I do mention that that is also an, you know, an emergency.
Collin 22:14
So, you know, let's say we do walk in in an emergency. What are some best practices for transport of a bird from their home to the hospital, anything that we need to be aware of, or how to how to secure the bird appropriately when we're making that move.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 22:27
Yeah, and I would say this is we're doing a little bit of prep work ahead of time. And really your your pet sitting clients may not even think about it, but I think a good practice is making sure that you have contact information for the veterinarian, and then having a transport carrier available, because you obviously can't just carry a burden safely, and so, you know, having, at least knowing the location of where a carrier may be, and then covering it with a towel in case it's, you know, cold outside. But I would say that if, if you do have an emergency, if a bird is is hand tame and not having any sort of neurologic episode, it may very well step up. But most birds are not keen on getting into a carrier. So sometimes what I'll have people do is use a little dish towel or something where you can scoop the bird up and put it into the carrier. That versus some bird. Well, even my Amazon, he knows what the carrier is, and he typically, as I get closer to the carrier, tries to fly around. And so even getting them into the carrier, it may be helpful to use something like a towel to scoop them up. But some people get nervous about getting bitten, and and they have a tendency to want to do things like wear big welding gloves or something not, not a good idea, because you can't really feel what the birds doing. So much better to just scoop them up and get them in a contained area. But planning ahead of time, making sure that is available is going to be a key thing to to having that be able to happen.
Collin 23:58
No, I'm glad you mentioned that, because I see pet sitters who, even if they're just taking care of cats and dogs, they don't ask about that aspect. Because I think it's one in that moment, it's the furthest thing from our mind of nothing. What could possibly happen where I would need to do this? But when it does happen, all of a sudden, it's like, well, I guess I'll grab a box or something like that. It's just, it's not what we really want to have happen. So it that little, those few questions of, and I've, we've had it, of, instead of trying to scare the client, of, like, well, in an emergency, what can we put your bird in? Saying, like, well, when you take your vet, your bird to the vet, how do you do that? And seeing what their process is can really help you also understand about how, how, how behave. The bird is going to be in this process for you, too.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 24:46
And I guess I'm coming from the standpoint of being a veterinarian working in an emergency clinic, seeing these birds come in in crisis. So I tend to be the alarmist, you know? But I do think, yeah, you obviously don't. Want to scare the client and have them think the bird's going to die, but just to say out outward of it, you know, an abundance of caution. These are things that I prefer knowing in advance. You know, just having it, even as a taken form, if you have a form people are filling out, having that as a standard set of questions can be helpful, I think, versus dealing with it in the crisis situation,
Collin 25:20
right? Yeah, making sure that everybody's set up for success. Because we, too, we want to be bringing the bird in in a way that is going to be best for the veterinarian as well, that they're not having to, you know, dig in some weird bag, or things like, right, right? Like, just like, we want to make sure that that process goes smoothly for everybody. Absolutely, no, I know a thing that comes up a lot with just pet sitting in general, is the importance of having good routines, schedules and consistency. How important is this for birds, their care and their well being?
Dr. Jennifer Graham 25:53
Well, I would say, much like us, they are creatures of habit, and they have a lot of time, they will have things that they I would say, think about it as like a sunrise sunset. The average bird, you know in the wild, it's going to go it's going to go by the sun. So as soon as the sun comes up, they're going to be getting up, they're going to be eating, they're going to be doing their things. They'll have, they'll be periods of time where they sleep, during the day, they like oftentimes, they'll have people tell me that their bird tells them when they want to go to bed. And so arranging with the client ahead of time, and knowing, you know a lot of times, pet sitters may just be coming by once a day, so they may not be coming by at certain times. And so if you know, if you're coming in the middle of the day, for example, finding out from that client, you know, if they have lights, are they on a timer? Some birds prefer to be covered at night, and so getting information about how that bird is normally kept. I do have some birds that prefer listening to the radio during the day. I have some birds that they get grouchy if they can't watch their favorite cartoon. So just talking to the client about what the routine is, and sometimes even trying to adjust visit times for, you know, to help with that situation. But no matter what it's going to be, you know, a disruption from their normal day to day sort of thing, just by nature of pet sitting. But I would say, although some veterinarians are able to offer boarding services in the hospital, I always recommend as a first choice that that people have a pet sitter come into their home, because it is so much less stress than having that bird transported be in an unfamiliar environment. So unless there's some sort of underlying medical reason, it is so much better for the bird in terms of just trying to keep things to their usual routine as much as possible,
Collin 27:39
yeah, making sure we stay on that. And we've had that too, where some clients will say, Well, I usually, you know, do X, I usually feed them twice a day, but you can, you only have to feed them one time. And really taking that moment to say, well, I can do two visits, and that way they stay on their routine. And then we can help be an advocate even more. So back to the client and say, No, you're not inconveniencing me. We'll go ahead and do the normal routine. We'll come over at night and flip the lights and at least offering that to them so that they can stay on that routine and that schedule.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 28:07
Yeah, absolutely, because even things like fresh foods, a lot of birds will get fresh foods offered. But it's not really ideal to have those sitting out all day and overnight. And so if you are able to come more than once, you can have fresh foods out, and then bring them in. And then, I don't know if this is a great place to put this in there, but just a couple of common things that I see as issues. One thing to be aware of is that if a bird is eating a seed diet, most of the birds, like the pet citizens, they will hold the seed so they will open the outer part of the shell and eat the inner seed. And so as that happens, those halls can stack up, and it's not always obvious when a bird is low on food. So just make sure that that people know what to look for if it's a if it's the whole of the seed versus the actual seed. Because I have had birds come in through emergency that have not actually had food because the pet sitter was not aware that the food that the seeds were running out, because it looked like seeds were still there, but it was just the whole of the seed. So that's that is one thing that I would say is is pretty key. And then the other thing is to be aware that if a bird has a sipper bottle, those can get clogged, because birds are naughty, and they like to shove things up to make their food wet. And so every day, as part of that, you know, make sure, if they're using some sort of water bottle versus bowl, that there's water coming out. And then, when you are cleaning the water bowls, don't just rinse them. What will happen is there's a film that forms on the inside of that bowl. And so if you can even kind of wipe that out as you're replacing the water, because some of the things that would normally cause an issue for a dog or cat could be problematic for a bird if, if you know that film builds up in the bowl versus being cleaned out. So
Collin 29:56
yeah, that's another one of always wipe out the. Bowls always, you know, and you have to be sensitive to not using soaps and detergents in the waters, but wiping the poles out really goes a long way to helping make sure that they stay healthy, keeping those bacteria levels low. And it's just, it's really simple to do. You're already over at the sink right. Just run your front of your hand you you can feel it and and that too, exactly. And that can be something where sometimes clients don't mention those little things of because they just know to do it. They're just automatically doing it. And if we're not paying attention, we can gloss over that, and it can go 345, days without being
Dr. Jennifer Graham 30:33
touched. And for a bird that that is significant for sure.
Collin 30:37
And now a word from our friends at pet sitters International, there's strength in numbers, and connecting with like minded pet care professionals helps you your business and the industry at large. Building your professional pet sitting business doesn't have to be overwhelming. As a psi member, you'll join 1000s of fellow pet sitters working together to set high standards and elevate the professional pet sitting industry and support one another along the way. Visit petsit.com/join to learn more and use the promo code confessional 15 at checkout to save $15 off your first year. Again, that's petsit.com/join Now. What about, what about cleanliness of the cage? Because I have, we've had some clients who have requested us, oh, don't worry about cleaning the cage while I'm away. Any recommendations there? Jennifer, for you know, how often or things that we should be on the lookout for there? Well, I would
Dr. Jennifer Graham 31:30
say, for my birds, I do, like a kind of a bigger cage cleaning once a week. And so it is true, like I don't always clean the cage every day. What some people do is they'll just have and I think what makes it easier for pet sitters is have, if you have newspaper in the bottom of the cage, for example, if you have multiple layers that way, all you have to do is pull a top layer off, versus changing out the papers in their entirety. That can be something that's easier to do. Be aware, and this is something maybe even bird owners don't know, you have to be very careful about particulate substrate. So like the corn cob sorts of bedding, or walnut type bedding, it's, it's very it's not good because moisture collects and fungal organisms grow, and that can be a real problem. And so if you do see one of your clients using that, it's even, I would say, I would emphasize to them that it's much safer to do something that's not going to hold moisture, because if it does sit there and get wet, then birds are very sensitive to fungal infections, and that can be a problem if, especially if you see mold growing in the in the cage, for example, you do not want to wait on something like that.
Collin 32:38
Yeah, and that kind of bedding, it can be, it'd be very appealing. It looks nice, right? It's right there in the pet store. Other people may be using it. You see it in various things, but to go, nope, right? The boring old newspaper, it just works. And it's totally fine, yeah.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 32:53
And then you can see their droppings, because the looking at the droppings is such a key to burn health. And if you can't see them, then you're going to miss some of those queries. Yeah,
Collin 33:04
no. And I loved your tip too about making sure that you're double checking the seeds if they do have access to that to you that you're actually looking at the contents of it, because you're too often. If we're busy, if we're not paying attention, it's just a quick glance to go, oh, there's food there, and then we move on. But taking that one second to go. But what is that made of? And really going? Okay, let me maybe do some. Sometimes we've had to do, let me just do a whole refresh, because I can't really tell or the mixture. There's not there's too many holes here and not enough actual seed. So I'm just going to dump this out. We'll start fresh today and move on right well,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 33:38
and with the husks, one of the tricks is, because they're so light, even if you just kind of agitate the bowl a little, a lot of times, you'll see them kind of like you can actually even just shake them off the top.
Collin 33:50
Now, I have heard a phrase many times from from clients. Of they'll say, oh, I have a I have a one person, bird or, you know, or my How do you have any recommendations for working with with birds who aren't either, you know, socialized or adjusted to different people coming and going from
Dr. Jennifer Graham 34:10
the home? Well, one thing I would say is, most of the time when clients tell me that they're wrong, that's their perception. But keep in mind that a bird will be completely different when the owner's not around. And so whereas you know, if they are very bonded to an owner, it's very a natural behavior to defend a nesting environment, to defend a territory, to defend the mate, but when a bird is in a situation where things have changed, they're really they're going to be much more open to people like, I've had birds step up for me in a room when an owner has said, Oh, they don't like anybody, just because it's a different sort of scenario. So I would say, don't just because you were told that it may not be true when you are there in the absence of the owner. So I would say the big thing is keep an open mind about that. Um. Because not all birds will follow the same sorts of behaviors as they would with the owner there, and then getting used to what that bird's normal behavior is, and just reading body language. And so that's a big thing, because birds, if they are like with my Amazon parrot, when he does not want to be handled, he'll even do some lunging behavior. Sometimes, when they're very excited. Though, they have a control over their iris, and they can, it's called pinning, but they they can dilate and constrict their their eye at will the pupil. It's pretty it's pretty impressive. So if you see a bird doing that very rapidly, if that pupil is constricting and dilating very rapidly, that means the bird is excited, which could be they're excited to see you, or they're about to bite you. So just don't ignore it because they're trying to tell you something. But just just, you know, looking at that bird's body language, because they're usually going to be attention starved their owners gone, and they're going to be a lot more social with new people if they want attention. So
Collin 36:02
excited. To see you or bite you. I've had friendships like that before. This is very much like people. It's true. No, I know a lot of times, you know, as petzers, you know, we don't know what we don't know. And so there's a lot of in this world, any any species specific challenges or things that people, that you think more people need to be aware of, or that you just don't see going being addressed.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 36:26
Well, I would say in situations where you have multiple birds housed together, well, obviously you have to be worried there could be trauma. But I think a lot of times birds like that may they they're not as involved with the like, they may not be as impacted by being left alone because they they have a cage. May you know what I'm saying, like they have some something that they're interacting with. And I do think that birds that are housed alone may be more sensitive to those sorts of changes when we do see because you'll sometimes hear about, oh, the bird picked all its feathers out overnight, which is not exactly a lie that sometimes can happen. But what I find is that the larger species, like the cockatoos, the the grays, they they tend to be more prone to be have having behavioral related, feather damaging behavior that can be associated with an owner leaving, whereas I don't tend to see that behavior as much in the smaller birds. And so while I hate to generalize, I would say I feel sometimes that the the larger parrots seem to be a little bit more sensitive to an owner weaving than than some of that like I feel like, for example, cockatiels, just they seem to roll with the punches a little bit better
Collin 37:41
any particular reason for that, that that trend that you see between larger versus small? Yeah,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 37:45
I think part of it is, how, how long have they been domesticated? Because if you think about it, some of these birds that you know, like I said, back in when the AAD first started, there were these birds that were caught out of the wild and brought in, and they had not been domesticated very long at all. And for birds like budgies and cockatiels that have been bred in captivity for longer periods of time, they may be well, they may just be better adjusted to things. But then also in terms of natural environments and behaviors, if you think about like, if you watch a bird in its natural environment like it's flying and foraging, and there's so many other things it's doing versus just being confined to a cage. And so I think a lot of the problems we see manifest are also because of captivity in these birds and lack of enrichment.
Collin 38:32
Realizing that we're dealing with very short timeframes of captivity and being domesticated, and the number of generations that have happened form the larger versus smaller birds too, is kind of what you're touching on there. If there's there'd be a lot more used to this, that enrichment side, too. Of, you know, sometimes people put mirrors in there. Sometimes people put all sorts of, you know, balls, or, you know, bells, anything that we need to be aware of that shouldn't be in there. If a client has it in the in some in a cage,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 39:01
they I'm glad that you brought this talk. Topic up. And one thing I would say is, as much as we'd like birds, enrichment is important. Just realize that a dramatic change of trying to replace toys and things like that, it's, it's going to be a stress, if it's, you know, a new environment, a new person, that sort of thing. But things I have seen in terms of birds getting into trouble, um, if they're if they have a leg band, especially if the leg band is too large, they can get that leg band caught in rope type things, chain type things. And I can't tell you how many times I've seen like how the toys hanging on the C clamps that the bird will actually get its beak caught in that. And I've seen birds somehow get it unscrewed, get their be caught in that, and then come in on emergency when it's stuck in there. So be aware of that. And anything that's we don't recommend any sort of what. We don't recommend nests in general. But if there is any sort of fibrous material, thread like material, they can get that. Wrapped around their toes. And so watch if a bird has something that they're chewing on, if they're fraying, if it has strands of fabric that could get wrapped around their feet, that could be a problem. So pay attention to things like that.
Collin 40:15
Again, all the more reason to really take the time to be to observe we're not we don't need to be rushing take that. That's why we're there at the time, is to observe the health and condition of the bird, to make sure that everything is in order, and to make sure that we're not missing these things. Because I'm, you know, I'm sure that it can be easy to miss, you know, we mentioned, like the seeds. But really, you know, it's just really comes back to that of going, I've got to have eyes ears. I'm looking hands off bird if it is, you know, if it is tame enough to do that for me, if it's comfortable, it's not stressed out. To make sure that I'm really catching these things and knowing now is an emergency, I need to move on
Dr. Jennifer Graham 40:54
Absolutely. And I really, by no stretch, do I want people to be stressed out about birds. But it is. It is something that, keeping in mind, dogs and cats are much more I would say it's a lot easier to pick up on things when something's wrong with them. And so I feel like that's why I tend to have you know, the more you know about birds, the better you'll be at picking up subtle things. And so don't, definitely, don't be scared. But just realized it's they're not going to be as obvious as, you know, the dogs or cats maybe that you're taking
Collin 41:26
care of. Well, where can pet sitters go for more information, resources or training, you know, to get to get
Dr. Jennifer Graham 41:33
better at that? Well, I would say the association of avian veterinarians has a great
Collin 41:39
I'm a little biased, I guess, Jennifer,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 41:43
they do have some great resources, and they do have, they have some pages that are open to clients. So if you go to AAV, dot, O, R, G, they there is an option for finding a vet. So if you are in an emergency and you don't have an avian vet readily available, that could be a way, if your client hasn't told you of one, that's a resource. But also, there is a tab for owner resources. There are so many different handouts and videos like, for example, if you had to medicate a bird, for example, there's videos on how to medicate a bird, how to set up a hospital page, various types of things that can that can be educational. And then with some of the some of the food companies, like LA fever, vet Harrison's bird diets, they have websites that on their websites, they have educational material for for clients, and even information about species specific types of things, how to know if your bird is sick, that sort of thing. And those, I feel like, are quite reputable sources for
Collin 42:47
people. I just download the caring for ducks PDF off of your website. So we're getting that, sending that over to our team right now
Dr. Jennifer Graham 42:59
there, yeah, there's some, definitely some, some great summaries of things on there. Yeah, well,
Collin 43:04
and it's also to just a reminder of of this is, as you've mentioned a couple times now, this is always growing and expanding, and it's not just this general care. Then there's the the senior pets, and then there's the medicating pets, and then there's all sorts of different things that we need to be aware of where information is because we're not going to encounter it all immediately. It's going to be slowly over time and growing with that experience and confidence as we take that on.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 43:27
And the other thing I would suggest is, if there are veterinarians in your area that see birds, let them know you're willing to go into people's homes. Because I have people ask me all the time, who can come take care of my bird. Who do you trust that can come into my home? And so even just knowing that people are available for that is hugely helpful, because veterinarians get asked that question quite a bit. So make sure that you look around at the vets in your area and reach out to them and make sure they have your information. That will go a long way. Because, quite simply, you know, I recommend people to the pet sitters I use because I know them. But if I don't know of pet sitters in the area, it's, it's not something I can recommend. So make sure your vets know you're there too. What was let's talk about
Collin 44:14
that as far as building that relationship of of how can, from your perspective, how can pet sitters and avian vets work better and more closely together for the health and better outcomes for the for the birds.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 44:29
So I would say, even well, even just letting your veterinarian know that you're available, I think is a is a big thing, and sometimes it just depends on the schedule, because some of them are very busy, but even just having some information that you can leave with the front desk, that they can pass along to the vet with a summary of, you know, the services you offer, your experience, your contact information, I think that can be very helpful, just so that information is there. And then, certainly, if you have a pet of your own and you take it in, then you can get to. Know them that way. And that's it is interesting that that's how I've gotten to know several people that do offer those services, because I have actually had some of my clients tell me, Oh, by the way, I'm available. So that's been one of the best ways that I've been able to meet people, to know, to even recommend them as well.
Collin 45:17
I like that you mentioned information about our experience, because I see this, a lot of people will go, Well, you know, I'll introduce myself to a vet, and they know nothing about us, right? They don't know how long we've been in business, they don't know the kind of animals that we've cared for, they don't know what we've dealt with or kind of medication medicating that we've done in the past. And so it's it would be hard for them to recommend us to somebody for specific things. If they're just like, well, I don't know, here's a card I have on my desk, right? That's not really what we're looking for. So remembering that there's a big conversation there that we need to be having during that initial contact.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 45:55
And I would say if you, if any of you, are skilled with treatments, on birds, giving medications, those sorts of things, that is golden, because I do have some of my patients that are on medications for chronic illness, for example. And if you are comfortable with administering medications, that's another and then, like I said, there's a video on that, you know, you can get more information about that, but that, that sort of thing can be very helpful when we have birds that maybe the owners are, and for me, for example, I don't offer boarding services. I don't have the space in the hospital to offer that, so I'm very much dependent on people going into homes to help out, right?
Collin 46:35
Knowing that it's just, it's an ongoing conversation and that just, you know, making that first contact. And then if you do have a client with a bird that you have you know concerns about, or if you want to have more questions, reaching out to the vets in your area to to either direct them to a good vet to continue that care for or just have that back and forth of you know problems that you're seeing. Because, you know, we we get to be in the home where the bird is in its own environment. And I know, you know, before we got jumped on the the call, you were talking about how you were doing remote consults and being able to be in people's homes, seeing birds and their behaviors, we can really bring a lot of that information of the behaviors and things that we're seeing, as opposed to the bird being brought into a clinic who might not be showing those same signs, signs or symptoms when they're in that environment.
Dr. Jennifer Graham 47:22
And I have worked, I've actually worked with my clients quite a bit if, if they because they'll tell me if they're going out of town and they have someone taking care of their bird. So I will make sure that they give that client the information for the clinic if there's an emergency, and even if it's if it's a bird that has a lot of chronic, ongoing issues, I will make sure they have, you know, that they can get in contact with the hospital if there's questions. Because I don't want that bird to go without being, obviously, without being cared for, and sometimes the veterinarian who has seen that bird over the years has more familiarity with what their normal behaviors may be.
Collin 47:57
I know you touched on this, Jennifer, but I did want to just just ask if people are listening to this, they're hesitant or nervous about birds. I see this a lot of I know some people who just say birds, they make me nervous. I don't really know a lot about them, or I've missed I don't know what's going on here. I'm kind of freaked out by them when they're watching me. What would you say to somebody who's kind of thinking that right now in their head?
Dr. Jennifer Graham 48:20
I cannot tell you how many veterinarians tell me that I'm always trying to get them to take care of birds on emergency. I hear the same thing all the time. I think really spending time around birds is a big like, if you have friends that have birds, for example, I think that can go a long way, even if, like, sometimes, if I'm in pets, you know, pet stores and I see birds spending more time around them, just watching their natural behaviors. And in terms of online resources, there are just so many good resources that you can watch, you know, videos of normal behaviors, you know, videos of people interacting with birds. I think those sorts of things can be helpful as well, but either having like visual or direct experience can go a long way to just helping ease comfort, because that's the thing is, I think it seems like such a foreign kind of scary thing, and then once you spend more time around them, you realize, oh, hey, they're pretty chill. And I would say, if you're if you are scared of birds, it may be good to start with chickens, because they're not quite as scary sometimes as as citizens and so they're, they're, I would have to say they're generally more low maintenance. Well, generally
Collin 49:31
asterisk. I was
Dr. Jennifer Graham 49:32
just thinking of when I was a kid in the rooster that attacked me. But anyway,
Collin 49:36
you know I was, I was gonna say, Jennifer, I have a rooster I need to introduce you to from my childhood, because I had the exact same experience. Yes,
Dr. Jennifer Graham 49:45
Henry. Henry was the one that came out. Yeah, he went after me one time. I remember that. Well, ours
Collin 49:50
was Mr. Imacus. So I definitely, well, Jennifer, I'm so thankful that you came on the show today. And shared with us about a topic that I think a lot more pet sitters need to be knowledgeable in, especially as there's a growing interest in exotics and birds and their care, and people are looking to have that. And I see a lot of people who say, Well, I have I can't travel because I don't have anybody who I can trust, or things like that. So I think it's a real need that's needed industry. And so for for those who want to get in touch with you or learn more about the the association, how best can they do
Dr. Jennifer Graham 50:29
that? So AAB, dot, O, RG, and so that's going to be a great resource for people. And I, if and I, I do my primary consulting is directly to veterinarians. And so if people have, if they have a veterinarian that has questions about cases, I actually do consulting through several consulting platforms, and so their veterinarians can certainly reach out to me about case consultations and things like that.
Collin 50:54
Perfect. Well, I'll have links to the association in the in the show notes, so people can get click right to there and see the information and start downloading some of those cool PDFs that I have pulled up over here that I'm ready to dive into. Jennifer, this has just been an immense pleasure, and I'm so thankful for your time today. Thank you for coming on the
Dr. Jennifer Graham 51:10
show. Oh, you're welcome. And I'm just excited, because if there are people who are interested in helping take care of birds, it's just it is wonderful to hear. And I hope that I have not deterred you too much from seeking that out.
Collin 51:23
No, not all. It's a good reminder of the more knowledge and just exposure that we have, the better we can care for these and ask good questions and have good follow ups and good systems in place so that we have that good quality of care that people are looking for. So it was fantastic. All right, thank you so much, the more you know, the more you're familiar with something, the better you'll be able at picking up on the subtle things as we gain experience as pet sitters and dog walkers with different breeds, different conditions, different requests, we should never let the first time that we're interacting with that be the first time we've learned about it, whether it's birds, rabbits, hippos, I don't know, make sure that by the time you're standing in front of that animal or that condition or that scenario, it's not your first time thinking about it and looking it up, from subtle signs of illness to specific dietary needs, the world is awash with such a wide variety of possibilities. They require observation informed caregivers, which are us. They need that to give peace of mind to the clients and quality care to the pets. So whether it's just checking food, whatever that is, make sure that every detail matters. Take the time to learn, ask questions and work closely with those AVN vets. Build that partnership and that trust that you and they can rely on your bird clients and their humans will thank you. We want to thank today's sponsors, tied to pet and pet sitters International, for making this show possible, and we really want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and we'll be back again soon.
