313: Troubleshooting Cat Behavior Issues with Molly Kelsey
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Summary:
How do we empower our clients to live better lives with their cats? As cat care becomes a larger part of pet services, more clients are looking for help. Molly Kelsey, The Cat Counsellor, joins the show to give us insights into feline behavior. Cat communication is all about body language, so not only must we understand it, but we also must be willing to teach out client’s about it. Molly has advice for troubleshooting common cat issues but ultimately, we have to realize it’s up to the owner to decide how much work they’ll put into it.
Main topics
Cat culture in New Zealand
Common problems with cats
Understanding cat behavior
Caring for timid cats
Help cats (and owners) through big transitions
Main takeaway: We have the responsibility of being an advocate for the cats in our care and educating their owners.
About our guest:
Hey! name is Molly Kelsey, professed serial tea drinker, Feline Behavioural Specialist, Vet Nurse, and foster fail when it comes to orphan neonatal Tabbys. I have had the pleasure of working with cats for over ten years in companion animal practice, pet sitting, volunteering in New Zealand and overseas, and more recently, as a Feline Behavioural Specialist. I am the only PPG registered Feline Behaviour Consultant in New Zealand and am also registered with the IAABC. My work ethos centres around improving the mental and physical well-being of every cat I am asked to assist with. This is achieved by educating and empowering owners, pet sitters, shelter staff, and veterinary professionals.
Links:
The Cat Counsellor: https://www.thecatcounsellor.com/
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecatcounsellor
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
cat, people, pet, clients, owner, animals, behavior, timid, helping, kitten, life, bit, resources, dog, person, noticed, vet, eating, house, conversations
SPEAKERS
Molly K., Collin
Collin 00:10
Hello, I'm Meghan. I'm Collin. And this is Pet Sitter confessional and open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter brought to you by time to pet and pet perennials. Well, hello, everybody, and welcome back. Today, we're super excited to have Molly Kelsey, the cat counselor on the show to talk about cat behavior, things that every pet sitter needs to know to understand cat language better. And a little bit about cat culture around the globe. So Molly, thank you so much for coming on the show today, super excited to talk to you about all these things. Could you please tell us a little bit more about your background and all that you do? Yeah, sure.
Molly K. 00:46
So like you said, my name is Molly, and I am a title feline behavior nerd. I used to work as a vet, nurse, and on and off again, cat foster used to pits it. And yeah, I just have a huge animal lover, and basically my life from results around them.
Collin 01:07
What got you focusing on on cats? Specifically,
Molly K. 01:11
I think it was a combination of the work environment I was in and then my own cats. Just working as a vet nurse, I came across a lot of cats who had, you know, a negative mental state. And it wasn't just at the clinic, it was also in the home from what the owners were telling us. And things weren't getting resolved. And then just my own cats. I've had some I've had a couple of quirky cats. And you know, sometimes it's just like, Why? Why are you doing this? I want to know why you do this. And it kind of just went from there.
Collin 01:45
Well, so what's interesting to me is, is you're interested in cats, so you're based out of New Zealand, and they have quite a contentious relationship with domestic cats. I know they were originally introduced back in like, the 18th century. And it's kind of been a battle ever since. So what's the perception of cat ownership in New Zealand?
Molly K. 02:05
Yeah, it can be quite polarizing. So cats are the most popular pet in New Zealand, they actually surpassed dogs. And I can't remember the exact step. But I think it's like average household who has cats is more likely to have two than one. Yeah, so you know, a lot of us have cats, and we have more than one. But we do have a lot of native wildlife that evolved without predators like cats. So they're not equipped to deal with, you know, the apex predator, this miniature, you know, murder mitten machine. With cats being allowed outside access all the time, but the majority of owners, we've got this real problem of our native species being decimated by cats just doing you know, what they evolved to do what's normal for them. So we do have some people who take things quite extremely in terms of how to manage cats. We have a reasonable feral cat population here, which is you have on one side, people being like, leave them be leave them alone, they're not doing anything. And then you have the other side where they're like, actually they are. And because they're not owned or looked after we need to manage them. And unfortunately, feral cats can't be put into a sanctuary. So it's very difficult.
Collin 03:36
So how does that impact society's perception of dealing with cats? Do you find that they are equally as invested in the care and upkeep of their cats as opposed to you know, other other cultures in areas around the globe?
Molly K. 03:53
Yes, and no. It's so for me when I was a kid, it was like a lot of people grew up in New Zealand, the cats are kind of just there, you had a pet cat, they were left to their own devices going in and out the house, they got whatever food you bought, and if they came up injured or anything, you know, you'd hopefully take them to the vet, but a lot of it's quite laid back. Compared to I mean, it's different now, a little bit different now, but compared to overseas, I just have clients I've dealt with like in Australia and the states, there's a lot more focus on keeping cats indoors, and also keeping them contained to a property and protection from predators and vice versa, stopping them going out. And a lot more people overseas Do you know train their cats to go and harnesses and to go walks and those sorts of things. So New Zealand's a bit different at the moment but it is kind of catching up.
Collin 04:49
I also noticed a lot of change in a lot of our clientele over the years of their investment in the cats like there's still a big chunk of people who believe the cats kind of this also end of oh, I have I have a dog and the primary focus is dog. Well, there's also this cat over here. Could you do you know, could you look at it every now and then. But then there are an increasingly number is pleasingly large number of people who are specifically cat people. And they're the primary focus is the cat. And they want you to come over to three times a day for the cat. And it's really great to see that I know, it just takes time and education to get to that point and encouragement and I think also resources as well, which is, why your background and focus on being a cat in a feline behavior, it's just so interesting, because now that's a new resource that a lot of people didn't know existed or have access to in the past. So what is a feline behaviorist? And what do you do and what do you focus on?
Molly K. 05:42
Yes, so basically, feline behavioral specialists are professionals with an academic background. Hopefully, there's some people that call themselves that and they haven't studied. But you know, what can you do? And basically, we help owners and other types of cat carers, so sitters shelter staff, veterinary staff, to resolve or understand any kind of behavior in cats that can cause concern or makes them difficult to care for.
Collin 06:13
Well, because there are a lot of myths, myths, misconceptions, or misunderstandings of cat behavior. And I think the one that really comes to my mind is, a lot of people are tend to describe their cats as a jerk, right? Oh, my cats just a jerk, or they don't like people, he's just mean, in that kind of, once that cat gets labeled with something like that, it's hard to break that perception of not just with the owner, but also with everybody in that cat's life. And so equipping them with proper terms, and giving them better understanding is a huge way to just improving that quality of life for that pet and that relationship that that owner has with them.
Molly K. 06:50
Yeah, definitely. I get a lot of clients who say, you know, my cat's dead kid, or my cat hates me. My cat hates my husband, you know, all the all these words that don't apply to cats. They don't have that. They're not like us. And I think that's part of the problem as we expect, and interpret their behaviors as we would another person.
Collin 07:19
Right? Well, yeah, we really do anthropomorphize the animals in our lives. And I think that leads to a lot of benefits, like the amount of care and focus and attention and money we're willing to invest in them. But it also really does limit our ability to interpret their language to us that they're trying to communicate, because I don't speak cat and the cat doesn't speak me. And we have to try and come to this understanding of what exactly we're trying to do without getting lost in translation. And so that does take some going, Okay, I'm not talking to a person, I'm not watching a person's interactions. I want to get a cat's body language. Now, how would you know, what do I need to take from that?
Molly K. 07:58
Yeah, it's a double edged sword. You know, like you said, it helps us with bonding and care. But it also places a lot of expectations on a cat to behave a certain way or to react a certain way to a domestic situation. And that's where we run into trouble.
Collin 08:17
Yeah. Well, you mentioned some of the words people use to describe their cats. What, what about some of the common problems that you get from people who are looking for help.
Molly K. 08:28
And most common would be, so a correction can be directed towards other cats or people or furniture. People who have more than one cat, multi cat tension and the household. So bringing a new cat home, and things don't go well, I also deal with quite a bit of house soiling and furniture damage. And a lot of cats, especially in New Zealand cats who go off the property and cause chaos and then come back and the owner gets angry notes in the mailbox from a neighbor.
Collin 09:00
It's about getting down to that to that root cause so for you, I know it's common. You mentioned that when when somebody has one cat, they're more likely to have two cats. So that multi cat tension, how do you recommend people and I think really, how can a pet sitter help integrate a new cat to an already cat existing family or cat in an existing family? Yeah,
Molly K. 09:22
yeah, I mean, first off, it's often this is too little too late. But I'd say to people, assess if your cat or your cats are gonna enjoy having a new cat in the home in the first place. Like if you've got a cat who's 12 and it's lived only solo cats whole life with you, and you bring home a 10 week old kitten. This chances are that That cat is not going to be very happy at all. You know that they've had their life a certain way for so long. And then you're like, Here you go. Here's this Energizer Bunny to want to play with you all the time and chase you And you know, do all these things. So yeah, assessing if that's going to be the best move for the cats in the first place is number one. Number two is not rushing introductions. We get a lot of when people bring a cat home, they open the cage and just let the cat out through the whole house rolled. And the other animals the like, what on earth? Have you done? Like, who is this? You didn't even tell us that someone was coming? And now what are we supposed to do? So not rushing introductions, and being strategic with introductions is really important. And finally, just making sure that there's enough resources for each cat, so not making them share a water bowl, or a litter tray or a bed, and making sure they all have their own spaces to go is really important.
Collin 10:48
Yeah, and those are tough conversations to have sometimes with clients, I know, for us, we've encountered people who have had, you know, two, three cats, and the resources there just aren't enough to meet those needs. And they may think it's fine, because well, I'll just, I'll just hop off the food more, I'll just give them more water. And it's like, well, but it's a space thing, too, right. That's, that's what we have to understand here is there's this physical space, there's this places that they need to be by themselves and allowed or have the opportunity, I think that's what's really more important here, have the opportunity and ability to have time away from others, and providing that safe space for them. And, and that's just, you know, looking at the situation, and being able to have that community that cup that conversation with those clients.
Molly K. 11:31
Yeah, it can be difficult, and it can be quite emotional for people. Because, you know, if you have a plate of food, and you have five people in a house, you're not going to be happy or eating from the same plate, you're not going to be happy sleeping in the same bed using the same bathroom. You know, it's, it doesn't make sense for us. So why would it make sense for an animal that has a predator and prey brain? You know, they're trained to avoid conflict and keep safe all the time. So if you're forcing them to get in close quarters with another cat, just eat or drink, that can be quite problematic.
Collin 12:12
Yeah, well, I think like you said, just taking that first initial step of asking, is my current cat, a multi Cat, cat, right, is that as pet sitters, we hear this kind of stuff all the time of, oh, I'm thinking about getting another one or I'm thinking about getting, you know, there's this opportunity for me to bring this and, and I think that's a great step for us to step in as the pet care provider and be an advocate for them and go, Okay, I know that cat kitten super adorable. And I know, you know, Tom is getting really old, and you're worried about, you know, what happens when he passes. But, you know, we really need to take a step back here and really assess this to see what's best for him. I think that's putting them front and center of that decision of okay, beyond, above and beyond what you as the owner want. What's the best decision for your cat?
Molly K. 12:58
And then going from there? Yeah, definitely. And it can be quite hard, you know, coming from, you know, like a professional perspective, because you don't want to make the person feel bad about you know, what they're thinking about. But I find framing it as it either works two ways, you frame it from the animals perspective. Or you can frame it from this as what could go wrong, and how it could affect you if it goes wrong. So sometimes people are more focused on how it affects them, versus how it's going to affect their pet, which, you know, that's just how some people are. So sometimes it takes a bit of communication to figure out which avenue is going to be the best way to approach it.
Collin 13:40
Yeah, exactly. What's their motivating factor here? What's gonna be the biggest what are they going to weigh pro con list the most possible because you're right, if you start describing the you know, if you bring this cat in and you're going to have if you don't do it properly, you're going to have a lot of you know, may have more aggression may have more soiling in places that you don't want to you may have more fights over these things, which means you're not going to be getting a lot of sleep at night because they're going to be going you know, it's like describing that scenario and setting that up for them as a way just kind of open their eyes a little bit because they don't they don't think about that you know that the kitten halo effect is very real. It's the kind of distorts our reality, a lot of times about what what we're actually dealing with, and actually see
Molly K. 14:18
differently with new kittens. A lot of people have good intentions, like they'll, you know, see our kitten that needs rescuing or a kitten that someone's giving away on Facebook and they're like, Oh, God, I can't let anyone take it and do something bad. So they bring this kitten home. And sometimes it goes well, sometimes doesn't. So a lot of the time I think people have good intentions.
Collin 14:44
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Collin 15:10
If you are looking for new pet sitting software, give time to pet a try, listeners of our show save 50% off your first three months by visiting time to pet.com/confessionals. I think a lot of this stuff gets down to love the lack of understanding of cat behavior, and what they're trying to communicate to us this cat language. And so why do you think it's hard for people to fully understand cat body language and cat behavior and read it appropriately?
Molly K. 15:39
I think a lot of it is just assumptions. A lot of people just think of cat as this, you know, like, Lone Wanderer who wants to be left alone and can't be trained can't be, you know, negotiated with for something, and that they're not friendly, like dogs, you know, like, there's all these like misconceptions. And I think that kind of skews our interactions with them. Because we kind of go in thinking all these things about them without giving the cat chance. And we often don't take the time to just observe them and listen to them about what they want. And if they're, you know, acting acting out or behaving badly. We we don't look at it and go, Why are you doing this? Why are you asking for help? Like, what's wrong? We just go, Oh, he's trading up the couch. We don't think Why are you doing this? Like, what have I not provided you in this home? That you have had to resort to doing this?
Collin 16:43
Yeah, exactly. Checking our biases. And if we just walk in and go, Oh, well, this is just a tiny Cougar who hates me and wants to eat me and you know, and destroy everything in a moment's notice. I'm gonna react very differently around that animal than I am. If I go, it's trying to actually communicate something, right. It's not just quote unquote, the way it is. But there's a reason behind this, that I need to scratch the surface a little bit more to understand what that is.
Molly K. 17:06
Yeah, and there's also just this expectation that because we feed them and house them, and look after them, that the cat owes us physical contact, and should put up with us picking them up, and kids grabbing their tail, and you know, all these things, and cats have no obligation to do any of that. They're their own being. And I think a lot of the issues come down from people going, well, I pet my cat, and then he bites me. And it's like, Well, did you check with them? If it had enough padding? Did you assess if he was agitated before moving in and putting your hand over his head and petting him? You know, we just kind of take them for granted, then go, Oh, why did you scratch me? Well, because he's sick of it. Or he just woke up. He just woke them up. And he's like,
Collin 17:55
Yeah, we're not, we're not treating them as the individuals that they are. And, and so again, imposing ourselves, our expectations, and the language that we think is going, oh, I want this right now, I know, doesn't really matter what you want, unfortunately, is but a lot of this gets down to and so I think that's where as as pet sitters, we really do have the ability to help our, our clients bond well with their pets by helping them understand that kind of language. Yeah,
Molly K. 18:21
it's this unique kind of insight that we have when we pit. So like, I used to pit it on and off for about six, seven years. And just spending time with the cats while the owners are away, you do pick up on things that they may not, they might not notice because I live with the cat every day. And they're kind of used to it. So you know, we can communicate to them and say, I just noticed this, and then you can relate it back to a cat that you know, and you can be like, I also met a cat that did something similar. And this is what we did, and the cat was much happier. So you don't come across as like you're being terrible, or you know, like you're not doing right by your cat blah, blah, blah, you're kind of going like, this is what helped another cat I know. And I think this could help your cat. And I think that is the best way to go with things like that.
Collin 19:09
relating it to past experiences and the knowledge and resources and I think sometimes going look, I don't really know what's going on here. Let me do a little bit of research or get connected with an expert on this or refer you to them if this is something that I'm really having a hard time cracking but we have that opportunity. Our clients love their pets. They invest a lot into them, they trust us with them. And we get to come in as professionals and give them a professional set of eyes, hands ears, and smells sometimes and help assess them and help them commute again use a different language and approach than they may be used to from past experiences.
Molly K. 19:47
Yeah, and just being able to, you know, kind of point them in the way of resources or you know, specialists who can help them because a lot of the time people don't consider it. You have people who get dog trainers and dog behaviors you know that It's quite common. But with animals like cats, and you know, other small animals, people don't often think about it like that. They'll go, Oh, I've been to the vet, the vet said, there's nothing wrong with them physically. So it's just the way he is where it could be a simple case of the litter box is too small, or a scratch post is unstable. So the cat won't use it because it tips over.
Collin 20:23
That's a really interesting point have we are able to go? I know you've met all the basic needs on the outside, but are they being met appropriately? Like the scratch post is such an interesting example of, you know, they need to have access to that and somebody goes, Okay, I bought one. And they check it off the list, and they never think about again. And it's like, well, yeah, but, you know, let's think about the scratch post. Is it appropriately sized for the cat isn't in a good position where the cat wants to go? Is it stable? You know? Is it the right material for them? Is there all these other questions that we can start approaching them with? And then a lot of times, they'll see that little light bulb go off? And they go, Oh, no, no, the base is really wobbly. That makes a lot of sense. Let me go fix that. Right. So that's what we can bring to them. And that helps a lot. Because once we can start giving them asking the right questions, they can start answering them a lot of times on their own. And that alone starts that, that bonding that better relationship and starts improving their lives together.
Molly K. 21:20
It's basically just, you know, when you know better, you do better. And the majority of pet owners do do better. When they, you know, when they find out, you know, something needs to be altered or adjusted. And, and yeah, just you know, being in the house and being with the cats, it gives us that unique insight that say a vet or a friend of the owner won't have. And that's where kind of our power lies to make a positive change.
Collin 21:47
That was so so for you, you know, we talked about language and behavior and how it's kind of misunderstood. What do you how do you recommend people start speaking cat better? What are some of the basics that everybody should look for know, understand if they're going to be caring for cats,
Molly K. 22:02
first, body language and facial expressions are a huge indicator of the mood of cat isn't. You often see pictures of you know, cats who are relaxed, they've got, you know, the tails away from the body. And they're just, you know, like laying down and the ears are for mouth close. And that, you know, they just look happy and relaxed, you know what it kind of looks like. But you'll see cats that are quite crouched down low and their tails flicking. And people go, Oh, he's just playful, or he's annoyed that I haven't fed them. And it could be that he's anxious or scared or frustrated. So body language is a real big indicator. And I often just give people body language guides. And they say, just have a look at your cat whenever you see them and think, What is he feeling right now. And then from there, you can kind of adjust how you interact with them. Because it can make all the difference just going oh, he looks a bit agitated. I'm not going to engage and pet him right now. Instead, I'm going to put out a toy for him to play with, or put on some soothing music and give them some space. Just kind of keeping in mind how they're feeling. And then that kind of just builds that mutual respect as well, because you're respecting their need for space or engagement. And they will appreciate
Collin 23:26
that. Yeah, well, true communication happens when it changes an action of the other party and they receive it. And so just by just it's it's one thing to teach a client and to give them that body language guide and go here, now you can know that your cat is happy, or scared or angry. The really powerful moment comes in Okay, now what do I do with that information? Do I pet them? Do I not pet them? Do I assess them for injuries? Do I assess them for something else? Do I look at their food? Do I look at all those stuff or the second set that we have to help our clients get in the habit of doing? Because that's when that true communication happens. And then a hugh said once the cat realizes Oh, there actually isn't this moment of like nerds received. They're actually listening and paying attention to me. And it's getting through. I can now work through this a lot easier. But then before that, because sometimes cats kind of go from those, those early stages, those early signs of fear, and they go straight to aggression. Well, it's because everything else in the middle was ignored for such a long time. But now they only have this way of reacting. And so we've got to help dial this back and give them that respect so that they don't have to go from zero to 100.
Molly K. 24:41
I do deal with a lot of clients who have got cat too. They say out of nowhere this cat has started biting me. And in reality, unless it's a thing like sudden onset pain and injury that's causing the cat to bite. It's usually things have been building for a time the cats gone well I've To altered my ear position, and I've changed my posture to show you that I don't want to engage right now or I'm scared or something. And then that gets ignored. Then they start swishing their tail and maybe growling towards whatever is causing the issue. And then that gets ignored. And then they go, Okay, well, you haven't noticed or you've ignored all my other cries for help. So I'm gonna go for bite or scratch and the owner is, you know, in shock, because they're like, where did this come from? And the cats like, I've been telling you for like four weeks now that there's a dog that sits outside the window and stares at me, and it's really stressing me out. And yeah, it's just keeping a note on how your cats feeling through their body language. It's, it's a very powerful tool, and I think it's very underutilized.
Collin 25:55
Yeah. And that gets back to helping the client understand the impact to their life, if they don't do something, right. It's like, okay, well, what do you mean, I need to pay attention, my cats violated as well do you want them to get to the point where they're so reactive now that they are at, you know, out of, quote, unquote, out of nowhere, we can prevent all of that and give a good cat a really good chance to make this relationship work really well, if you start actively and intentionally looking for this. And obviously, you know, cat, people are going to are going to do that. And I think a lot of the issues come in with people who view their cats, like we said, as an also end, and we have to try and convince them of why invest that time into understanding their cat, why is that important to them? So for you, if somebody is reluctant to kind of put in that effort? How do you have that conversation with them about why it's important and relevant to them.
Molly K. 26:46
As soon as find out what the expectations are through, you know, if they do want to attempt to change anything, and I look at also how much time and energy they are willing to put in. Because there's, there's no point in forming in our fantastic plan that I would follow you and follow to make a positive change, if the owner is only going to put in 50%. So finding out first where like, where they kind of stand where they're gonna draw the line, and then kind of working around that to the cat's best interests. Because you know, not all of us are going to have the time to do what someone else is going to do. And some owners don't want to invest money into getting new equipment, or, you know, even getting behavioral health, you know, that cost money. Some people aren't keen on that. So kind of just finding out what they're going to be willing to do and then adjusting what you advise based on that.
Collin 27:49
Yeah, that how much of a problem is this to you? Is that a $10? Problem? $100 problem. So $1,000 problem, what would you be willing to pay do sacrifice in order to make this better, and like you said that it's different for everybody. And we as the senators, and the people who are coming in with some of this advice, and I'm sure for you is the the behavioral specialists going, I'm not going to assume what this person is capable or willing to do, I just have to lay out what the options are, and leave it to them to decide. And then we've had we do at some point have to step back and go, Well, it's up to them as the owner to to move forward with one of
Molly K. 28:26
these options. Here, I learned that very early on working with animals as a vet nurses, giving people advice and suggestions for how to do things. And a lot of the time, people would just be like, No, that's too hard. So they wouldn't do anything. Whereas if I'd kind of gone, how much are you willing to do? And they'd say, from one to 10, I'm going to do a five, so you advise for up to five, then the next client will only do three, so you advise one to three. So assuming that they're all going to be a 10 is because I'm going to result in the animal not getting anything. So it's you know, making it work around the person because they're the one who ultimately is going to impact the animal's life.
Collin 29:13
Yeah, and let me know, okay, a thought and effort of five may be just fine. But it's going to take you twice as long than if you buckle down and we do this we you know, knock it out of the park right now. But if we're going to be sitting at 100, you know, that's not enough to move the needle on this. So just, you know, being frank with him about that, and then yeah, they're gonna have to decide that's, that's tough for us. We don't like to see that. Because, obviously, we're at 10s and everything else we would sacrifice, you know, we would obviously go and do all this. That's kind of why we're in the industry.
Molly K. 29:43
Yeah, when we're not in it for the for the bank rolling, that's for sure. We're in it to make a difference in because we love animals. And yeah, it's just kind of managing also our expectations of our clients. You know, realizing that no one's perfect and that our priorities are gonna be different to the IRS. And that's okay. You know, that makes us you know, it's more interesting, if we're all the same, it'd be pretty boring. So kind of just, you know, like, not assuming and working with them, not against them is going to be more beneficial for the animals,
Collin 30:18
I wanted to dive into a couple different cat behaviors, specific scenarios for you and just kind of get some your your input and how you approach these because I think they're kind of kind of common are ones that people don't really think about as being an issue or could be an issue. And I think, for me, what I've enjoyed about this conversation, and the way I view a lot of this stuff is, you know, there may be there might not even be a problem right now, quote unquote, right, everything may be perfectly fine. But what we need to be helping our clients do is help them set up for success for the long term. You know, I've been having more and more conversations with clients recently about, well, I know the cat or the dog is reactive around this, and it doesn't bother you right now. But But how would you handle this if you had to give insulin shots or medication or if you had to start taking to the cat to the vet on a weekly basis because of a condition that they develop? What are we going to do them? And that's where we need to be thinking about kind of more long term in this because clients again, they're busy, they're focused, they are enjoying the hearing now, which is totally fine. But we need to help start preparing them for future things to make sure it's not an issue, even though it's, you know, it's not even on their radar right now.
Molly K. 31:28
Yeah, I often liken it to things like house insurance, like, they're like, Oh, well, it's fine. Now, I don't need it now. But then when your house gets robbed, you do need it. So you're better to have preventative, you know, like put the work in now. So that if something does happen, or you know, animals age, life changes, sometimes we have to do things like medicating or traveling a lot. And if we prepare our animals for that, then there's a much higher chance that we're going to be happier, they're going to be happier. And things are going to be a whole lot easier.
Collin 32:02
Let's talk resource guarding in cats, because we hear a lot about resource guarding in dogs. And many of our listeners understand what that looks like what that behavior looks like in dogs. So let's focus in on cats. And what is resource guarding look like in cat some of the early signs, and how do we start helping our clients work through that?
Molly K. 32:21
Yeah, it's generally a lot more subtle, and cats, like with a lot of things. And it can look as simple as it happens quite a lot in multi cat households where people, like you said, have the one bowl or they have a bunch of resources grouped together, like the water and the food and the same area. And it can look like a cat just sitting in the room staring at the resource. And then they will react negatively to whoever goes near the bowl that they perceive to be a threat towards that resource. It can even look like where a cat has had a negative experience in the past where they've been eating, and then the food's been taken away, and they didn't know when it was coming back. So they'll start being very protective of when the bowl is down on the ground. Because they're worried that they might not get more food and they could you know, suffer as a result. So I often say with people with resource gody and cats prevention is better than trying to fix it. So making sure there's enough resources, don't put your hand down and take the ball off and while they're eating then not as likely as dogs you know, to physically do anything towards you, but they are going to be frustrated. And that can manifest in things like furniture damage house soiling, avoiding you getting, you know, they'll start hassling you for food and being very demanding about putting the food down, and then they'll kind of stare at you to go away so they can eat. You know, just things like that. It's more subtle in cats, but it can manifest and things that people struggle with quite a lot.
Collin 34:04
Or unfortunately view is kind of adorable, right? I've seen the mewing and that oh, they're super excited about the food and look how interested and active they are. And you know, oh, it's my it's a little aggressive. But oh, it's so cute. How hungry? Oh, look at them, you know, guard their food and like who we are, again, we're anthropomorphizing this a lot right now. And we need to make sure that we are not putting ourselves you know, if you have kids or if you have other pets in danger, or I think at the end of day, making that pets life less than it can be right they are now living in stress and around stress and that impacts them every second of the day.
Molly K. 34:45
Definitely, yes, stress affects the whole body as well. Like when you think about you're feeding them. If they're eating while they're stressed, their body is not going to absorb nutrients as well. And they might rush the eating because they want to get as much food and then go away as fast as possible. Oh, so get one through, you know, they rushed down their food and they regurgitate it because of eating too fast. There's, you know, lots of ways that we can kind of avoid that. But it just comes from looking at things from their perspective. And not from what's easiest for us or most convenient or aesthetic fast. It's what is gonna work for cat, not a person.
Collin 35:24
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Molly K. 36:53
that? It really depends why they're timid in the first place. If you're looking at a cat that had poor socialization, when they were young, two people, so cat that lived, you know, outside had very little interaction with people and then was bought into a domestic environment, it's very likely they are going to be timid toward people, because that's how they were raised effectively. Then you've got cats who might be injured or in pain and are timid because they don't want to be touched. Or they've been patted in the past, and it hurt, so they'll avoid people because they're sore. So I think establishing why they're timid in the first place, checking with the owner that, you know, it hasn't just come out of nowhere, which could indicate an injury. That's one of the main things I look at. And then just with things to help respecting their space is really important. So if they go under the couch, don't stick your hand under there and try and be nice and be like, you're gonna come out and play, I've got food, the last thing that cat wants, as you're getting closer, if they seek space away, don't go towards and that's the opposite of what you want. Again, forming those positive associations. So if they do come out, give them a treat, you know, toss a treat, whenever they come out, whenever they try and get closer. Just giving them a treat, you don't even have to engage with them physically just be like, hey, go, I'm rewarding you for coming near me, and let them set the pace. And, and being you know, if they're comfortable with it, you know, being around while they're eating or playing, so that they relate that to the person. And just getting down on their level, I noticed a lot of people will stand over timid cats. And really, I don't know why he's hiding in the cage. And they're standing like, you know, this tall person standing over this cat and the cat say, oh my god, whereas if you sat on the ground at the other end of the room, that's a lot less threatening. So just getting down to their level and letting them dictate how things proceed. Really.
Collin 39:01
Yeah, no, I like that. You know, we mentioned not reaching in after that the cat that's kind of trying to hide. For us, we've had to do a lot of education with their owner. Right, we come over to do a meet and greet. And they're like, Here, come you know, here's milk, you know, here's Millie, here we go. And they're pulling them down from the closet or ripping them from underneath the couch. And at that moment, you can feel like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place of going How do I tell this client to stop traumatizing this cat right? Right now? Because I want that cat to like me, right? Or at least have this be less stressful and I've really found just saying something like, meeting new people is really hard for a lot of pets, please leave them where they are. We'll just sit right here and we'll just talk and if they want to come out they will and that's something that we can work on with our visits. And just real simple, you know, rather a little forcefully sometimes to let the dope know please stop right. But because we want to make sure that that space is is safe and as sacred for that cat there again, they're trying like to tell something, this is a great opportunity for us to immediately swoop in and help educate and tell that client, your cat saying this, your cat is afraid right now got scared, stop. So we can we can have this in. Because if we continue to reach in and do this stuff, we'll go escalating through these behaviors really quickly to get back to but all of a sudden, this cat is now just lashing out at me. Someone walked in the door, and now the cat attacking me, what is this? Well, did you respect that space for the previous, you know, three, four months, two years? If not, you know, this could have been an issue. And unfortunately, trying to link these actions with their response sometimes is hard to do in the clients mind, because it happened so long ago, right? And it was just they didn't even think about they weren't paying attention. So we have to tease out some of those things at times,
Molly K. 40:44
it again, comes back to that thing about you know, like cattle, let you know, at a low volume, and then we ignore that, and then it just builds up and then suddenly it's on full blast and the owners like oh, I don't understand why. And we're like, well, but if it's a captain, you know, acting scared for the past few months. Yeah, he's been hiding in the wardrobe. So I go and get about, and then then he gets annoyed or runs off. And it's like, well, that that was your sign that something is very, you know, he's not happy and forcing him to come out of a safe space. It just added to the issue.
Collin 41:18
Well, speaking of safe spaces, you know, we've been talking about how to respect the space for the cat, make sure it's nice for them. But when cats make a big transition, that can be kind of hard, hard on them. So how do we wave the cat moves, if there's a new, maybe a new baby or a big change in the home that they are? How do we help with those big transition in a cat's life and help make sure that they the owner is doing the best that they can,
Molly K. 41:42
best thing I can suggest is preparation. So when we move house, we know we're moving house, we do all the paperwork, we go over to the new place, we check out where we're going to put everything we let our friends know, etc, etc. Cats a lot of the time, wake up one morning, and there's a bunch of moving boxes stuff being put away. They're put in a cage, they're taken to a completely new house after a potentially stressful car ride for however long. And then they live out into this new house and the owners like Degas and the cat is completely like what has happened, my whole world has just been turned upside down, I've had no chance to prepare at all, no one gave me any warning. And this place smells completely different. And it's terrifying. So if we look at preparing them, that can look like safer moving house or a baby's coming home. Getting sent familiarized, so taking their things that they've used to the new home and vice versa. So they can get kind of a mix scent, creating a safe room for them at the new place where they will kind of be for the first few days with all their normal stuff, their scratch posts, their beds, blankets, their footballs, all that smells familiar, things like that, and then progressing to exploring the rest of the house. And then we're babies playing normal baby sounds on the phone and a low volume, and then turning the volume up slowly while giving them lots of treats. So they get used to the sounds, bringing home baby gear like the cotton stuff and getting the cat used to the sounds that you know baby toys make and you know all those things that we kind of take for granted. The last thing the cat should experience as the baby coming home, it's all those other things that the cat needs to have a handle on and be comfortable with, before the little person comes in. Because otherwise, it can be quite a shock.
Collin 43:40
Right? Well, that's conversations that we have with our clients, I think many of us, we've recently experienced an increase in people who are moving to our service area, and they're completely new and they want us to care for their for their pets. And we've been having more of these conversations with them that kind of revolve around, okay, you wants to come and start caring for your cat. How just in taking again, this few moments to just go how have you prepared them for the move, right like like, and setting some expectations to like, Look, you just move. It's okay, if this cat doesn't come out for a little while, or this cat is going to be hidden or it might not be eating as regularly, but we're still gonna watch its poop and monitor its water intake and all that stuff. But it just having the communication sent and let the client know that your cat cats gonna be acting a little off. And that's to be expected. So we as the sitters need to make sure we aren't compounding on top of that and need to recognize that we're already dealing with a cat that's kind of at an elevated fear level. They're not at baseline, right? And again, setting our expectations for what the interaction is going to look like.
Molly K. 44:44
Just kind of sometimes you need to people don't realize like, Ah, I didn't realize that would be an issue. or the like, oh the kid No, we're moving we're packing boxes and we've gone to the new place and we've got his old bowl and you know all these things. cuz it's like, but did you like climatized, your cat to this new place? Did you gradually expose them? Did you have fallaway plugged in to reduce anxiety? Did you have a routine that you've kept? Now you've moved, like when you play when you feed? Like what? What has changed that you haven't set to maintain? Or keep similar? Can you know add up?
Collin 45:25
Yeah. And it's all about helping them in that in that scenario. And helping them understand that. So when we have those, those, those kind of tough conversations, right, maybe we have a client, and we start noticing some behavioral issues, or some things that aren't quite adding up. How I know people can be sensitive or dismissive, or they have multiple, you know, a multitude of reactions when we bring this up to them. How do we have those kind of tough conversations with people about how their cat is acting and what the realistic expectations are for that? Yeah,
Molly K. 45:59
I think asking questions is a really good way to start. So say you have observed a cat that is very skittish to certain sounds, or won't drink from the bowls are provided, but we'll drink from the shower when you leave the shower. But you don't notice it drinking throughout the day, you can ask the owner, you know. So well, I've been saying we've scooter was had a really nice time together. I did notice I dropped a book and scooter got really scared and went and hid under the bed for seven hours. Has this happened before? And then they'll say, oh, yeah, whenever I shut the door, or I clean a pot in the kitchen, he gets scared. And then you can be like, okay, so what am I advise that you do or what I found helpful with Scooter is that I played some clanging noises or dropping noises at a low volume on my phone while we were playing. And then I would give him a treat. And I'd slowly turn the volume up so that he wasn't as bothered by it, he was desensitized to it. And you know, offering them an easy way for them to help their cat that isn't going to be difficult. And you're not accusing them. And then the same for like you've got a cat that plays and appropriately a cat that well you know, you'll be playing with a one toy and then it grabs your arm. And you can say I was I was playing with you know, Mary the other day. And she got a bit excited, a bit overstimulated. And she grabbed my arm and said at the toy. Have you ever had this happen to you before and the owner be like, yeah, she grabs eink or whenever we walk past the door, and you will have Ah, okay, so what, what I might do and what I might suggest to you is maybe to play with her at before bedtime in the morning so that she gets some of the energy out so she's less likely to bite you. So kind of just Yeah, giving them ways to help. And not coming from like, you've done something wrong kind of angle. It's more of I observed this. This is how I helped your cat with it. And this is how you can help with
Collin 48:09
it. Yeah, not being accusatory even though sometimes you may have some suspicions, right? You can't start there. You can't start with. So tell me the last time you tell me the last time you hit your cat, right? You're not going there. Right? You're you're going you know, I've noticed this behavior. Have you have you had encountered this before? Okay, this is how I've addressed I love that progression because there's there's no accusation, there's no pressure, there's just hey, here's me my experience what I did, you know, you now have a tool in your in your war chest to to move forward with this and to help you with with with your cat.
Molly K. 48:44
Yeah, and the majority of people will appreciate it, you know, Cat Cat people, you know, they love their cats, they're like their babies effectively. So they're gonna be grateful for you being honest. And you know, that you've picked up on this thing that suggest that the cat isn't living optimally mentally and physically. And it's okay, you know, if you say I think your cat needs further assistance, to you know, to thrive. And that's where you know, people like me or a veterinary behaviorist. That's where that would come in. And you're not being afraid to say, I think you should get in touch with these people. They can help you.
Collin 49:23
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, recognizing where your your expertise stops, right? If you're in here and being observant and using the proper terms are what are our responsibility and speaking up, right. So we need to be observant. We need to speak up and when we do we use the proper terms so that they can take that information and communicate effectively to the next person that they seek out for help or to whomever they reach out to next so that that cat can get the care that it needs.
Molly K. 49:50
Definitely, yeah, it's, it's, uh, yeah, like I said, it's a powerful position to be in taking care of these animals.
Collin 49:57
Yeah. Molly, I want to thank you so much. much for coming on the show today and for sharing all about cats and how we as pet sitters can help them live better lives with their clients and how we can have those tough conversations because those can be really uncomfortable at times, but they're so necessary. And so needed to set that cat and plan up for success for not just today, but for years down the line. However, there's a lot more information here you have an entire degree in this, and this is what you focus on specifically. So how can people get in touch follow along with everything that you're doing and learn more about what this means to speak cat and to? To see what you do? Yes, so
Molly K. 50:37
my website is dub dub dub dot that cat council.com. It's spelt differently to the US spelling. So it's c o u n s e l l o r. And you'll find me also on Instagram where I spend way too much time at the cat counselor, again, also on Facebook, and yeah, those are the best places to reach out to me.
Collin 51:03
Awesome. And I'll have links to those in the show notes. And on the websites, people can click right to those Molly again, this has been a real pleasure. And I'm very thankful for you taking your time out of your day to come and talk with us. And again, I just can't thank you enough. So, so appreciate your time. And thank you for coming on the show. No worries, it's
Molly K. 51:20
been really fun. As cat care services
Collin 51:23
become an increasingly larger and larger portion of pet care services around the globe. It is up to us as pet care professionals to learn behavior and to be able to send our clients good resources and give them good information, especially as people add cats and multiple cats to their homes and every situation is obviously different. But that's where we can come in, assess, use appropriate language and terms, direct them to specialist if they need that and to partner with pet parents to make sure that their cat is living their best life possible. We want to thank our sponsors, time to pet and pet perennials for making today's show possible. And thank you so much for listening this week. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week and we'll be back again soon.
