727: From Founder to Future with Kaz Kelly
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What would happen to your pet care business if you needed (or wanted) to step away? Collin speaks with Kaz Kelly, founder of Founder to Future Consulting, about preparing a business for sale long before an exit becomes urgent. Kaz explains why annual exit-readiness audits, documented systems, independent teams, and clear financial boundaries make a business more attractive to potential buyers. They also explore the emotional realities of selling, including releasing control, redefining your identity, protecting yourself during due diligence, and accepting that a buyer is not responsible for preserving your legacy. Whether retirement is approaching or selling has never crossed your mind, this conversation will help you build a healthier, more transferable business today.
Main topics:
Preparing Before Selling Begins
Auditing Through Buyer Eyes
Separating Founder From Business
Navigating Sale Emotions Successfully
Planning Life After Ownership
Main takeaway: “We don’t know what we don’t know, and having someone that has been through the process of what you want to walk through, is invaluable.”
That is especially true when we try to evaluate a business we have spent years building from the inside. The passwords stored in our heads, the clients who call our personal phones, and the decisions only we know how to make may feel normal—but they can become serious obstacles when it is time to step away. Kaz Kelly encourages owners to look at their businesses through a buyer’s eyes before an exit becomes urgent. An annual exit-readiness audit can reveal the systems, boundaries, financial clarity, and team development needed to make the business healthier and more transferable. You may not be ready to sell today, but preparing now gives you more choices when the time eventually comes.
About our guest: Kaz Kelly is the founder of Founder to Future Consulting, where she helps female founders prepare themselves and their businesses for succession, sale, or a step back from daily operations. Before entering consulting, Kaz built and sold a successful enrichment-based dog daycare, grooming, and training facility in Queensland, Australia. Her background also includes working as a detector dog handler for the Australian Border Force and investigating animal cruelty cases for the RSPCA. Drawing from her own experience as an exited founder, Kaz helps business owners navigate both the operational demands and emotional realities of leaving a company they built.
Links:
Founder to Future Consulting: foundertofutureconsulting.com
Founder to Future Consulting on Instagram: @founder2future
Kaz Kelly on Instagram: @itskazkelly
Kaz Kelly on LinkedIn: Kaz Kelly
Give us a call!(636) 364-8260
Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pet Sitter Confessional, its hosts, or sponsors. We interview individuals based on their experience and expertise within the pet care industry. Any statements made outside of this platform, or unrelated to the topic discussed, are solely the responsibility of the guest.
A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
Collin 0:02
Welcome to Pet Sitter Confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. Today, we're brought to you by our friends at Timed Pet and Dog Co. Launch. Most of the time, we talk about starting our business and getting in and growing and the grind and the balance. But what do we do on the back end? Do we have ideas and thoughts and planning directed towards exiting our business and exiting it well? I I know a stat: 100% of us will eventually exit our business one way or the other. And to talk about how to do that well and appropriate and on our timeline, I'm really excited to have Kaz Kelly, owner and founder of Founder to the Future Consulting, on the show to talk about just this. So, Kaz, this is a topic that I don't think we talk about enough in pet care, just in small business in general. So, for those who aren't familiar with you, tell us a little bit, a little bit more about who you are and what you do?
Kaz Kelly 1:01
So I completely agree. We don't talk about it enough. So I'm so happy to be here to begin with. But my, I'm, I started to founded a future consulting because I've done this. So I am an exited founder, successfully sold from the pet care industry. I had one of the largest doggy daycare, grooming, and training facilities in Queensland, Australia, and sold that because we were relocating to America. So I had a reason, and we'll dive a bit deeper into you know how people get to the decision. But that was my reasoning for selling. But I had a business ready to sell, and I think that's another important aspect that we'll talk about as we dive a bit deeper as well. So my background has always been with dogs. I was a detector dog handler for Australian Border Force. Have worked for the RSPCA as an investigator into cruelty cases, and then my community was like, "We have nowhere to take our dog, and I thought, "Oh, I can fix that problem. And seven years later, sold this business that I just accidentally sort of opened and made a massive success. And it was sort of used as the blueprint for enrichment-based daycares in Australia.
Collin 2:13
Oh, that's well, and well, okay, enrichment-based daycares. That's that's a pretty new concept. So that's that's really exciting. How what was that like? Kind of getting that up and off the ground.
Kaz Kelly 2:23
Yeah, so I went into this knowing that it was going to be enrichment based. So all my work beforehand with working dogs and in cruelty cases and shelter environments led me to know that we were not going to be a place that people just dropped their dog for the day. That we were going to be very specific about how they spent their day and how they used their energy, and yes, it was very interesting to sort of do this naturally, but be really on the forefront of the enrichment-based daycare scene, and one of yeah, one of the few I would say even you know here in America as well as Australia doing it at the time for sure, and doing it for all the dogs? This was not an upsell. This was you came to an enrichment-based day camp. It's
Collin 3:08
so so long. It was just about containment, right? And basically, time out of house was all people cared about. And so, to really flip that and make it something that benefited and was more like long-term, holistic view really changes kind of the value that that like the clients get out of it, the dogs get out of it, and also I don't like makes it a much more much better place to work and be at too, like as an employee.
Kaz Kelly 3:32
Absolutely, absolutely. And mine was an inner city daycare, so we were high rise dogs, so everything sort of fit with that then. So all our training was based around city dogs. How can they be good city dogs? You know, going into lifts in apartments, separation anxiety, barking. You know, all of these noise complaints and things that are just very much city dog issues became just part of our everyday. So it was a whole sort of view of how we approached our fur kids in living in the city from puppyhood, you know, to senior days. Yeah,
Collin 4:07
and you grew and built that over the seven years, right? And you needed to exit. And now I know you talk a lot about how founders. Again, we we are always always starting something. So founders that you talk about how they need good lawyers and accountants and brokers and all this stuff, but you you you think that there's something missing from that mix of people that we speak to. What what is that?
Kaz Kelly 4:27
Yeah, I think they're missing
Michelle K. 4:30
a cas,
Kaz Kelly 4:30
and and I was missing a cas. I think the problem is we as founders go, okay, well, I'm ready to sell for whatever reason that may be, and and that also shapes how that process goes, but we come to that decision and we think, okay, well, I I know that we need to talk to a broker. That would be a common, I think, perception of most founders. The issue is is that founders appear to be on. Side because you're the first one having contact with them, and they ask you questions and they tell you, you know, the value of your business and how great it is, and da da da da da, and you go, oh my gosh, this is amazing, and you sign on the dotted line, and off they go, and then a buyer is found, and all of a sudden that broker is not on your side; they are sitting in between the two of you with one goal and one goal only, and that is to close a deal to get a commission. I don't. I have never had a client that has known the sale process. I didn't know the sale process, so I can only assume most of us don't. And there are many steps between signing on the dotted line with a broker and handing over the keys and getting money in your bank account, and we deserve as founders a good and successful exit, emotionally, financially, mentally, physically, and none of those people-accountant, lawyer, broker-do that for you. And and I don't see how we can go through a business journey of having mentors for everything and marketing gurus and we pay all this money to go to conferences and yet for a critical time in our business life we have decided for some reason we don't need that person and I think it's down to education I think we believe that this is an easy process, and it's not.
Collin 6:24
You talked about like the the misincentives or the disincentivation, the the the misaligned incentives. Yeah, I can get I can get some words out here about between each one of those people. Like the lawyer is so concerned about the legalities, closing these, making sure the structure is in place. The accountant is about the transfer and the assets and making sure the bookkeeping is taken care of. The broker is like, find a buyer, move on. Find a buyer, move on. And and yet, as you are like, no one's sitting there going to the founder, going, hey, like, are you walking through this okay? Like, are you sleeping right now? Like, are we asking what questions do you still have that bother you? Is this meeting your vision for what's about to happen? And that just gets like squirreled away. And on one aspect, Kaz, like this is a business decision, and and business is cut and dry. Did you sign? Did you not sign? And yet, as the founder, as the person who created something, you know, from nothing, we we have a lot invested into this as and and it's a lot more of an emotional aspect than I think many people recognize.
Kaz Kelly 7:31
Oh, absolutely, and and I think even for founders who are burnt out, so this is a decision based on burnout, which is a terrifying statistic, especially for female founders in itself, but I think the aspect of the emotions no one recognizes until you're at midnight deciding whether to call it a day on this and shut the doors. And all of my clients, all of them, I have received WhatsApp messages going call it a day, Cas, I'm out. Like, just be done. Just wrap it up. I don't, I don't care how it's done. Just ring me when it's over. And I'm, and I think that is the reality. And unfortunately, I I hate the thought of someone having those thoughts alone or trying to rely on family and friends who just don't get it. And and I think the other point is as well is when you get to the due diligence stage, a lot of the time there's a convers a group chat for want of a better word between you, the buyer, broker, all of this, and there's a lot of pressure in those to be answering questions, and a lot of the time it's not necessary to be answering those, but no one's going to tell you that. It just it can get really messy and a full-time job, and I just want a founder to be in the business, running the business, and I can be in the WhatsApp chat, you know, going, that's not relevant. Please move on. You know, it's like it's that.
Collin 8:53
Yeah, to what to what end? Because it is, man. Like you, you sit there, and whether you're selling or the buyer, like they have a lot of questions of you, and there's it can be very demanding of like do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, and and some like you may have a business set up to sell, you may have a business kind of set up to sell, you might not have a whole lot set up, and so that process alone can be very. I can imagine it'd be very tumultuous of like, oh, I don't have that data, or oh, I didn't do this, or oh, they're asking me this thing I don't have. Like, and all of a sudden, there's the questions about like, did I do everything right? Am I doing this right? And that all comes up right at the very end, right when you're supposed to be stepping out and going and enjoying the rest of your life.
Kaz Kelly 9:37
Absolutely, and I think too, these are the things if you're not set up and you haven't had someone check these things, this is when deals fall apart, and it can fall apart from both the buyer and seller's perspective. But it but it is a lot of pressure when you're feeling like you're being questioned about your business decisions, of which you may have had this business for 20 odd years. It can feel very. Very personal and very, yeah, victimizing. That you're like, why, why do they keep pushing me on this? Like, it's been fine for 20 years, and it's just it. It can become way too much for someone.
Collin 10:12
When sometimes all they're asking is like, look, I just want to know. I don't care one way or the other. But you're right. If there's no one to kind of interpret that, of like, look, this person, they just they're just trying to figure this out because they need to know what they need to do on the other end. To you, you're like, oh my gosh, like I've done everything wrong, and this is horrible.
Michelle K. 10:28
Yeah,
Collin 10:28
yeah, yeah. So this is like right here at the very end. We just like launched into this. When when do you think people owners should start thinking about this process to begin with,
Kaz Kelly 10:41
so I think we should all be doing an audit of our business every 12 months. I think it should be a business decision that we are budgeting for, and we have someone like not a not a finance audit. I mean a let's look at this from a buyer for a day, and we come in, we look at everything. What's in your head that we need to get out of it? You know, like today, how many questions do I need to ask you as the owner? What systems are in place, and can I could I if if something happened to you, could I come in, read a manual, and sort of muddle my way through it? Just really basic things that really hold up a sale or delay it, and if you're a burnt out owner trying to get out quickly, and I have to say to you, I need six months to turn this around, you may not have six months in the tank, and I'm going to be pulling you through this process. So I think we should be doing audit every year, and I think if you're doing that six months later, easy. If you haven't done that, we could be looking at 12 months in the lead up to putting your business on the market.
Collin 11:50
Have you heard of Tying to Pet? Sarita with exclusively cats has this to say.
Speaker 1 11:55
Oh, absolutely do it. I love it. I think it's absolutely from the get go. If you're just thinking about starting a business, do this. It's it's so inexpensive. It's it's kind of silly not to do it. Organizes everything for you. It's so amazing. I I think there. I think it's it's invaluable. I think especially for a new business owner, just kind of sets you off on the right foot, and makes you look like a true professional, not like a fly by night pet sitter.
Collin 12:19
If you're looking for new pet sitting software? Give Time to Pet a try. Listeners of our show will save 50% off your first three months by visiting timetbet.com/confessional. Well, I just want to make sure that our listeners heard a phrase that you did have in there, Kaz. Of if something happens to you, right? This that that while yes, we are talking about the hey, if you sell the business, if if that like if we can get to that point, great. However, this is also a preemptive protective strategy for in the meantime, because I've thought about this a lot. Of if something happens to Megan and I, we have people who become executors of the of the of the estate, right? Who run over our stuff? They don't know a flying anything about running a pet care business. They have no idea. And so, what do I? What would I need to tell them? Somebody complete outsider coming in to say, "Here's what you need to do, and maybe it's not. Here's how to hold a leash, or here's how to make sure the door is shut, or here's how to scoop litter. But maybe it's here's everyone who works for us. Here's when here's when the taxes need to be done. Here's when payroll. Here's what the payroll company is. Like all of that stuff. Just getting that in alignment and going here. It's in one place, and it's it's yeah. I'm sure you know getting it written down. You can shoot videos. Like there's a lot of different ways to start getting this out there that really just go every aspect where you can do of documenting the process that you do, whether you need it tomorrow or not. At least you you have it, and then you're set up for success when you do decide to make that decision to exit.
Kaz Kelly 14:00
Yeah, I think we we don't live in a world where we think about if something might happen to us. But of course, there's lots of us who have had you know close experiences and reflect. But for most of us, that's not the case. And I and I I think the part of the audit is it is a real like light bulb day, people. I've never done a day audit with a business, and they haven't gone. Oh my gosh! I can't believe all the things you saw that I would never have seen. And it is those things because I will say, okay, well, if you got hit by a bus this morning on the way here, and someone just happened to be like, "Oh, well, Kaz has sort of worked in this. Let's give her a call and see if she can open today. Where is the manual for me to know how to do that? Where is the code to let me in? How do yes? How do I know where your passwords are because you're the boss? Where do I find the contact details for the workers? All." I don't want it to be in your mobile phone. That's of no use to me if you've been hit by a bus. Like, it's all of those things, and I think in the everyday of business ownership, they are too big, too little, non-existent thoughts that sort of flutter in and out, but they're not concrete enough, and we don't have someone being like, we need to do this for multiple reasons, not just for this reason.
Collin 15:25
Yeah. Oh, this is just just the like the phone number that's used for the business. Like just that alone. Like I'm getting anxiety thinking about this, Kaz. I'm like, oh my gosh. Like where are those contacts stored? Who knows to call this number? Like how do people get this? Like, it just all of that stuff, and and so, and part of that's just it's again, I think it's really important to say, like, if you're listening to this, and that's like, you've done nothing wrong, like, that's part of the process of growing a business. You're responding, you're doing all of this stuff. It's that step to go. Okay, now I do need to, to some extent disentangle myself from the rest of the business, and and it's weird how a lot of times we get the first bit of have a business account, have a personal account, ta-da! Great, I've done that, and then everything else on the back end is like, and the emails are all intermixed, and the phone calls are intermixed, and everything else is intermixed, and all the software is intermixed, and and we go wait wait wait wait like that that becomes an issue when you look to step away and that's why when people hear six months a year what are you talking about cats like every one of these things of as you start to snip the strings of connection you find one more that you've got to get taken care of
Kaz Kelly 16:41
yeah and I would prefer that it is a conscious decision to sell, or to exit, or to hand over, or whatever that means to someone, than be put on the spot, and we are rallying to the end. and And I have a I had a client we sold last year together, and in handover we, you know, you have to hand over your Google Business Google accounts, and as we all know, remembering three verification, it's just a nightmare in general for someone who's got it together. Well, when you don't have it together, it is a legitimate nightmare, and if you've had people that have set up your Google business, or have managed it, or doing ads for you, and the agencies disappeared, and they had the, and this is this is what happened. She decided, well, I don't have, you know, the skills to do this. I'm going to outsource it. That business shut down. So in handover, I'm hearing for the first time, oh, Kaz, I don't have the Google Business login. I would have no idea how to get that, and the backup email was the agency's email, not one of her personal emails. So, you know, I've negotiated this handover down to a day. Even it started at three months, which is just insane. But I got it down to a day, and I'm at lunchtime being told, "Oh, this, you know, I don't have this, and this is really common. And I think we think, "Oh, well, I wrote that down in 2017. Cool, but do we know where that notebook from 2017 is?
Collin 18:17
No, chaos. We don't. We don't know where it goes. No
Kaz Kelly 18:21
one's got a clue, and this is what holds it up, and this is what causes stress. And then you've got a buyer being like, "Well, hang on a second, I was told they had everything because we thought we did.
Collin 18:33
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We do. We exactly, exactly. We do. We do think we have everything, but what's the quote? Everything, and and that's the scary part. So I mean, that's a you said that happens all the time. What from you? What you've worked through? What do you think of some of the biggest mistakes that founders make? Maybe not at selling, but like before selling.
Kaz Kelly 18:52
Before, yeah. I think having no boundaries with clients. You know, I do not want to hear when I come and we meet for the first time. That your clients have your personal mobile number. Don't want to hear it.
Collin 19:07
Yeah,
Kaz Kelly 19:07
too hard to unravel very quickly. We would. So when people are shocked that I say I need six months, that is actually one of the biggest things. Is if I have to pull you apart from your clients because you have had no boundaries. Yeah. Hard. Very difficult. The second thing is, if you do have a team and you have some staff, if they have had no independence to make decisions, it takes about six months to get a team comfortable doing that and getting an owner, a seller, comfortable doing that. That does not happen in two weeks. I cannot do it quickly before a new buyer comes in. A buyer will sniff out that very quickly, and and yeah, it can ruin a deal or it can bring the price down because you don't have a team that is comfortable making decisions. For themselves, and the third biggest one I think is having too many personal finances in the books, and or not paying yourself a wage that is clear to a buyer. A buyer wants to know how much money every fortnight or month or whatever can go into their pocket, and if that's not clear, hard to sell.
Collin 20:24
Separation, separation, separation. At each stage, it's clear lines, clear lines, clear lines with clients, clear lines with team members, clear lines with finances. Three that we again, you think, and also there's a degree to this. I think many times as founders, we're like, "Oh yeah, I don't have, I have great boundaries with clients. They accept that one and that one and that one and that one. And my team makes absolutely independent decisions, except all of my training says. And this was one that we caught, Kaz recently. We were going through our manual, and I noticed that it said things like call Collin and Megan when there's an issue. Okay, I actually wrote that when I made my manual five years ago. Call Collin and Megan when there's, and I'm like, what? Nobody wants that. Like, I don't want to do that. And so it was things like, okay, call management on call. Call manage using this specific management number, not my personal number. That was another thing, like teasing out, teasing out, because I was like, "Great, our team makes great calls, and they they're independent. But I had it written into my procedures: call me when things when things are awful, and that's just not going to fly.
Kaz Kelly 21:38
No, not going to fly, not going to fly because I think the other thing too is, is not all the buyers are coming from our industry, okay?
Collin 21:47
Yeah, yeah. And
Kaz Kelly 21:48
and I think that this is this you you have to start thinking about what what you want to take away from a sale, and that's also sort of where I come in. Let's be realistic about what we're trying to find out, not get caught up in a broker's number that you're never going to get. I want to look holistically at what you want from the sale, and sometimes that is realizing that this is not going to come from a person within the industry. So I need your business really independent from you, and there will be certain keywords that a buyer is looking for to understand that that's them.
Collin 22:27
Well, maybe Kaz, talk about the different. I'm curious. Like, do you have in mind like different kind of client avatars who are buying these kind of businesses, and then what kind of businesses match up well for those avatars? Because again, there's this there's this idealized version of my business is 100% completely and totally independent from me. Anybody from whether they're in the industry or not can come in and operate it. Like to me, that's all away on one spectrum, and that that has a certain kind of clientele that would be looking to purchase it versus the it's still pretty owner dependent on me, and I'm pretty still involved. Like, what kind of people buy that business, if any? Like, do you see that kind of spectrum in this process?
Kaz Kelly 23:10
Yeah, so I think it's interesting, and I'll try and I'll try and make it I think a bit personalized so that it makes sense to listeners. I think if you have a real, a fully independent business, let's say you're not in the business much, let's say I don't know, you pop in and meet some clients, and I don't know, pick up some mail. You might be in a group chat still, but it sort of runs by itself, and you're just checking. We can be looking at more money for sure, but we're also looking at hands-off buyers that don't really care about your legacy, if that's important to you, but are looking for something that has been established well with very strict parameters. I guess so. Using my business, that would be it in Australia. The one I sold, the enrichment-based acre. It was so managed and defined that someone could come in from outside and buy it. Yeah, they didn't. A groomer from Hong Kong actually did. So she had experience in the grooming aspect, but not in the others. But the flip side of that, so someone who's in it and really running it, someone like me might be interested in your business. I have experience. I can see where there might be growth, but you know, growth potentials, some value adding. As a buyer, I'm not going to tell you that that's what I've seen. But as your CAS, I might say we need to do a couple of these things because it's going to look great for a potential buyer, and it means we might be able to pull over this way a bit to that first buyer. I think there is a. I don't like the. I will never say that there is not a buyer for a business in this industry. I think everyone deserves a success. Full sale, whatever that looks like, or a successful exit, and I think there is always the right person for the right business. But the issue is, as founders, we, by the time we get to this point, we may be so done and over it that we actually don't have the gumption in us to hold on that long, and that's the issue-not that there's not a buyer,
Collin 25:22
right? Well, so we're buying a business, we're selling a business. Price comes up. Should I be going for the highest purchase price possible to get my buy?
Kaz Kelly 25:32
Look, a broker will tell you yes,
Collin 25:36
but you're not a broker. You're a Kaz. So not a broker. I'm a
Kaz Kelly 25:39
Kaz. So I think this is interesting. All of if if I haven't been on the journey with you before, and I get a call after you've met your broker, one of the obviously I will say, okay, like how much how much is your business on the market for? And I'll get given the figure, and I will then say, okay, can you send me your you know last two years P and Ls? And I'll go. I have no idea how the broker came up with this. It's usually the first thing I say, and it's because I want it to be a realistic sale. And I think this is getting lost. I think also because big equity has been buying a lot of pet businesses, especially here in the states. We we have been led to believe we may be worth more than we are, and and I think that's changing. I think you know. I think as the industry changes, we'll see those prices change as well. But no, I believe in holistic thing. I want to know how quickly do you need to be out? Is there a reason you're needing to be out? Is this price that the broker has given you a realistic price versus what I think we could probably get for you quickly? Three is legacy big for you? Is it really important that someone's coming in and remembering why this started and why it's here in the community? Is it a community-based business? Are you are you known in your community for something specific, and is that important for a buyer? Or five, are you just done, and you literally just want to keep the doors open to keep clients happy, and you'll take whatever. And and I, there is a range. It's surprising who you might think falls within that range, but no, we should not be aiming for the highest price for the sake of just popping a number on our website.
Collin 27:28
Well, because again, there's a there's so much tied into here. It's it's I have my incentives for selling, they have their incentives for buying, and the more in alignment they are, the more the price may you know reflect that. However, we often have to be realistic of what am I actually bringing to the table for my my business? And you're right. I love that you brought up that the private equity coming in of for you know boarding and daycare and veterinary and trainers and pet care. Like all of a sudden, it's like, hey, I'm sitting on a gold mine over here because I got I got 100 clients. So let's do this, and it's like, well, actually, whoa, whoa, like, what are they? They have different incentives for making this purchase, and are you in line with those? Or, like you said, is this a, hey, if you are so burned out, if if you ask the question, hey, what does a successful exit look like for you, and they say, oh, to be done two years ago, maybe we come down on price and we work on that so that this can move quickly and you can move on to your things. So it's recentering back onto the person that you are and where you are in your life and in what stage you're looking to move to.
Kaz Kelly 28:38
Absolutely, absolutely. And if and if you've got two years left in you and you want to aim for a million dollars for your business that's only worth 400,000, okay, like we can we can do that. But at the end of the two years, when you've got it in your head that you're meant to be out for a million bucks, it's going to be a very rude awakening when you have to suddenly cut it down to 400,000, and someone walks in the next week and actually buys your business, it it is I my biggest pet peeve is brokers telling sellers how much money they can sell their business for, and it is pie in the sky stuff based on nothing, and then I have to either say you're not going to get you're not just so you know you're not going to get an offer close to this, or something comes up in due diligence and it drops.
Collin 29:30
Yeah, and that
Kaz Kelly 29:31
happens a lot as well.
Collin 29:32
Well, that's again that's the purpose of due diligence. It's so that everybody, so you're you're laying bare your business, which is extremely vulnerable. We've already talked, like so, like okay. So maybe I'm not going after the most money. Talk about emotionally, Kaz. Like for you, how do you like to coach people into having that successful exit from an emotional perspective?
Kaz Kelly 29:54
Well, this is going to be a bit controversial, but legacy. Means nothing once you've handed over the keys. Your legacy is done. So even though it can be really important to find a buyer that aligns with your values, maybe on how you handle animals or their background, for example, those things might be important, but carrying on your legacy is no one's job and no one's duty. And I think it's really beautiful when people find that alignment with a buyer and seller, but it's rare. And I have still seen deals fall through, even when those two people are so aligned in how they carry on, but emotionally preparing for it is definitely things like I want you not to be on your phone all the time in these group chats through due diligence. I don't want you to be answering a buyer on a Sunday afternoon when they've had a family lunch and the family's given them 20 questions to add to the email due diligence list, I don't want you replying to that on a Sunday afternoon. I want your friends and family as much as you can to know what you're going through because you're going to need some support. And if you aren't telling them, you definitely need some professional support outside your broker, lawyer, accountant. Okay. So I didn't tell friends and family that I was selling because I was so entrenched in my community that I was very worried about it leaking. So having someone would have really assisted me in this process for sure. Outside of my husband knowing, I think emotionally as well, it's preparing that you are going to be asked questions that you probably have never asked yourself, and they are not personal, even though it's about something super personal to you, which is your business. It is just, it is someone is purely looking at this as a business, not as your baby, not as your legacy. And I think that's the biggest thing, and just having someone to morph this. You will cry, you will laugh, you will get angry, you want to punch the new buyer, you want to punch a broker, you want to you know run your car into a brick wall. All of these things are normal on the process of selling and exiting your business, but you do need support.
Collin 32:16
Did Cas when you sold your business? Did you have that legacy mindset. Is that a hope that you had?
Kaz Kelly 32:23
Yes, I was very very legacy minded because I was so entrenched in the community. We did a lot in our community. We were very much a community based business, and the owner who came in really loved that about my business and loved what I had built. That people, you know, I could walk down the street and people knew me, and I think she really liked that idea that people knew other daycare dogs, and they'd be like, "Oh, do you go to daycare? And they would be like, "Yeah, we go to daycare, and then their dogs are friends. So I think she really liked that aspect. I don't know that she knew how to continue it as well, but I very quickly, and this is what I tell my clients: we very quickly, after settlement, draw a line. So that means you do not follow your own business anymore on social media. You do not have contact with the with the buyer unless there is something in writing about that relationship. You need a break. If you circle back and become whatever friends, acquaintances, yada yada, fine. But you do need a break from it, and I think this emotional tie needs to be cut. And most of the time, someone needs some support in doing that and having some clear boundaries.
Collin 33:36
Well, oftentimes I've heard that during this, there can be negotiated into it to have the former owner stay on for a time to help with the transition. So when is maybe maybe Kaz, like that is out there. I hear that's really common. When do I know if that's a good thing for me to do, and how do I maintain good boundaries through that kind of process?
Kaz Kelly 33:58
So handover is part of every sale contract. So handover is when you are showing the new buyer what your business does, how to do it, all of that. I will say this: I will negotiate your handover to be as little as possible as I can. In most contracts, lawyers are asked, especially buyers' lawyers, asking for like three months, which is insane. I would never, I would never get my client to agree to that ever. If I had someone helping me, my so mine was 30 days. I would have had mine at maybe two weeks. So handover is a compulsory part. It is usually you're not getting paid as the seller. This is just part of selling a business, but if we have done the work and your team knows things, I should only need you for the really boring things like Google handover, social media handover, phones, emails, all of sort of the big admin things that only owners can do, and everyone should do that. Hand. It is part of the process, and every buyer and seller do need time together. That is really important because there are things that only a seller will know. But I don't think you should be in the business long term in handover. It's not healthy for either of you, and I don't recommend doing long long handovers.
Collin 35:19
And again, that is presupposing that we've got some structure in the business and that they've got manuals to refer to, and I'm just kind of doing some nitty gritty sweep up, maybe doing some helpful introductions to the team or that kind of yeah that kind of you know handing it off to you know whatever supplier that you need and making those connections kind of thing, but not the like I am like actively teaching you deeply the meaning of this, and futzing with the schedule, and still contacting and doing client reach outs, and being part of the process like that. That sounds like that part. But what if I'm a control person, Kaz? How do I stop myself from doing that after I sold my business?
Kaz Kelly 36:00
So if you've done a handover with them, also okay. Let's take a step back. By the time we get to handover, handover is after due diligence. So we're we're at sale. This is happening. We're ready. You should be emotionally pretty done by now. If this has happened well, you should be ready to step out. If it's not done well, and you're still worried, or you still feel like, oh my gosh, this is going to fall into a heap. This is not a good exit. This is not a good. This hasn't gone well, in my opinion. I think the thing to remember too is, in handover, you're doing a team meeting. You're doing. You're showing them a roster. You're showing them where policies and procedures are found. They they should have a tick box, and you'll be going through this tick box, and then your team and your management and all those people should be handing over. If you are controlling and want to stay longer, it would be a contract, and you would be paid for that work,
Collin 37:01
okay, yeah, and but again, that's just you. We talk about business as a business decision, but there's also this personal aspect of what do what what's going to be good for me, what's going to be best for the business, where where is my business, and then right, I'm not in here offering all of my services for free because of this, and and that maybe some people may think, well, but I'm getting money for the business, so isn't that included? And you're saying, no, no, no, this is separate. You sold the business. You're coming back to work. You showed up the next day to work. You should be paid to work for that. And again, there's more healthy boundaries, more healthy things set up in in place.
Kaz Kelly 37:38
Yeah, you should hand over free. Yes, it is part of a sale. Anything after that, anything after it is not your business. You do not own it. Should be a paid contract. I will say too, the other reason I don't like my sellers doing this is because buyers in general, no matter what they say during the process, come in very quickly and start to trial things or change things, and it is extremely uncomfortable as a seller watching that happen. And to me, if we are not emotionally sort of inch by inch cutting some ties, and we are now have you working there, we've got bigger issues. Because when the hell are you leaving? My job's done, so I can't come get you.
Collin 38:24
Yeah, you
Kaz Kelly 38:24
know,
Collin 38:25
yeah. You're like
Kaz Kelly 38:26
floating around independently now. We've all, we've all got our money, and you've decided I'm going to go back and work for my bit. It just it makes no emotional sense to me, and I don't think it's healthy for the seller or the buyer, no matter how nervous or anxiety-forward either side is, it's not good. I can come up with other options, but before we get there,
Collin 38:49
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Collin 39:49
Okay, so if I'm if I need to make sure I need to put my legacy into perspective, part of my legacy is not just in my community and the clients that I'm serving. Another part of that are my employees. That work for me. How much concern should I have, if any, about the culture and the the connection that they have after I've stepped out and I've sold?
Kaz Kelly 40:12
So I didn't tell my team I was selling. So they found out in in the staff meeting with the buyer. I think you, to me, your concern should be trying to keep things as normal so that you have a team to hand over to a new buyer. I care deeply for my team. I did a lot for them outside of their role. For me, they were young women. It was very much like being a bit of a mother hen and rounding up the chicks at times, and getting midnight calls to go rescue site. All of these, feeding them, all of these things. But at the end of the day, you've got to be able to hand over a really healthy and full team to a buyer. So that is what comes first. Your love and care for them as human beings comes second in this process, the the buyer coming in most of the time, and I have never seen this happen so far in doing this work, is they will take all of your team members. I haven't witnessed anyone say I don't want them, I don't want this person for whatever reason. Most of the time, they've taken everyone, and then it's over to them,
Collin 41:23
right? Well, part of that is I've got bookings tomorrow, and I can't not have staff for that, right? I, I, we, so there is going to. Hey, they may have a plan to kind of do a rotation and keep people through, but like everyone's going to come on board because we got to keep the ship moving. We've got.
Kaz Kelly 41:39
It's also none of your business,
Collin 41:40
right? Okay. Well, see, there's that. There's that part, and that. But that's that part of like, like. Have you? Have you ever had somebody regret selling their business?
Kaz Kelly 41:50
No.
Collin 41:51
Okay.
Kaz Kelly 41:53
No. Never. No. I think. I think there's been regret over decisions that they might have made during that process. I have regrets of some things I felt I was pushed into deciding during the process because I didn't have support. So I think for some of my clients, there's regret about stuff they did before I came on board and and things they might have agreed to in their contract that I just then couldn't negotiate for them. But from a from a sale perspective, no, no one has ever regretted selling their business.
Collin 42:28
And I think that's important to remember. Of of there's decisions like that, you're going to have to go. Oh, okay. Knowing what I know now, okay. That and but it's also part of that. Like okay, that was learning, and I let that go. Like, do you? How do you recommend people work through those regrets that they do carry after that transition? After they do sell,
Kaz Kelly 42:48
well, I think it's another reminder, right, that your broker is done once the money has gone, once once you've paid the commission and money's gone into your account. No one is checking up on you. This is this this is crazy to me. Like I actually, I talk about the reason I started founded a future consulting, and one of the one of my top five reasons is the aftermath of selling, and that no one checked in on me. No one asked how the process went. No one was concerned with the sort of feelings of regret, maybe a month later about the decisions I was forced into. No one asked me about when I first started hearing things about the new, you know, the new owner, just on the grapevine in the community. How to cope with that? The the ending that day. Yes, you should be drinking champagne and getting yourself a present from you know Chanel, and that's what you should do. But the month after or whatever, you are so alone, and I I don't want anyone to ever feel like that. I fully believe in checking up on my clients, in in making sure they're okay, in making sure that there's a plan. I don't care if you don't want to work. I don't care if you want to open another bit. I I don't care what it is. I want you to have a bit of a plan for self care after that initial suck of your life and energy going through a sale,
Collin 44:15
because there's a whole aspect of you that is now no longer there, and that's like if you've been spent seven years, 20 years, 30 years building, growing, maintaining, marketing, talking about, living, breathing, and then all of a sudden on Tuesday, nothing,
Kaz Kelly 44:36
nothing.
Collin 44:36
What's on the other side of that? And and and that aspect is like, man. Like there's there's just that void that now it's like you said, like what is there? Have we talked about it? Is that part of my exit plan? We just talked about making sure I had policies and procedures and SOPs and management and protocols and all that stuff is in place. But what's what's I've yet again forgot about me and my plan for what. Happens after.
Kaz Kelly 45:01
Yes, it is absolutely part of a successful succession plan. Is knowing what you're going to do or have some ideas down of how to fill your time because our identity as founders, no matter if we want to admit it or not, is caught up in our business. We like saying, "I'm Kaz Kelly from Doggy Daycare Brisbane, where now I'm just Caz Kelly for I don't know how long, or if I'll ever be Cas Kelly from you know again,
Speaker 2 45:30
yeah,
Kaz Kelly 45:30
or will I just be Kaz Kelly bean counter for X? All of these things are fine, but it's very emotional and it can really hit you, and and the sale process is so mind-consuming and all-encompassing and exhausting that by the time we get to the champagne popping, most people are like, oh my god, I can't believe it. A fine for a week and then go, oh my god, Kaz, like, what what do I what do I do now? What What do I do now?
Collin 46:02
Yeah,
Kaz Kelly 46:03
and we need to have some things in place that we can go back to. Hey, remember when we did those things? You know, you wrote a list of books you wanted to read, and you said you wanted to go and have a long weekend somewhere and read and drink wine and not be on your phone because you don't have that stupid group chat that you needed to be in anymore. It's it's just having that person to remind them to go back to what they were focusing on, and some people have already started their next thing. I have a lot of clients who have already started writing down what their next idea is and how it might look, and I'm always like, you need a you need a break, and then you can focus on the next thing.
Collin 46:40
I am curious, and I don't know again about this aspect. Again, it's a business decision. There are various ways to finance the selling of a business. Okay, and I don't, you know, we don't don't need to go into those calculations right now. But I am curious from your perspective, Kaz. Does the fin the way something is financed does that impact this kind of relationship. For example, like I hear a lot of things like seller finance. That's a way to do it versus the bank finance, and and that they just get one lump sum. Like, have you seen a difference in how those boundaries are maintained and how those relationships and how people handle those and the impact on them emotionally?
Kaz Kelly 47:21
Yeah, I think the seller financing, I think, sounds good and it works for a lot of people. But it is a, it's a, it's a long term, it's a long term commitment. It's another, it's another agreement being made that ties you to something, and it works. Yes, it works a lot. But for from the perspective of the emotional toll, which we've been talking a lot about, it can really hold you in place. Feel a bit stuck to some degree because you're still attached to this thing, so yeah, it can definitely change, and I do talk about that and the pros and cons of both sides to my clients, and especially if you're burnt out, I do not. I I think you just need to get out. Yeah,
Collin 48:19
again, it's that aspect of going. Okay, I'm ready to sell. This person came in. They're they're great people. They're after my. You know, they're interested in my legacy. Their stuff. Oh, they want to tie me to the business for another five to seven years with seller finance. Am I okay with that? Am I okay with the memories that I get every time I get that check in the mail or that hits my account. Are there going to be any strings attached or links to this that comes in later down the line? And that's that is I we just you just never hear about that because it's do I get the money and when do we when when's the end date and it's the all of these things are going to impact you, and yes, and if we don't recognize that in that holistic sense, we really do. I can imagine end up going, well, what happened? Like, what? How do we end up here? Oh my goodness!
Kaz Kelly 49:15
Yeah, and what happens if in three years out of that seven years that you're waiting for this check? What happens if in three years a really good opportunity comes, and you might have had the money sitting somewhere that you could take that opportunity, but you don't because you agreed to this thing because it sounded good at the time. It everything you've just got to really pull out these things.
Collin 49:38
Well, and I will add with seller finance, what is it? What is the what is the what is it held against the business? And so, if that person stops paying you, guess what? You get to do congratulations. You get to step into the business and take over. Who knows what at this point? Because there's there's no transition there. This is court ordered. Have fun. Right, like, am I prepared for that? Is that something that I am ready to do in three years, in five years, if something goes wrong here? Am I going to enforce that? Like, you really need to think about where you are going to be at, and if that's something you want to maintain.
Kaz Kelly 50:17
Well, and like in my situation, I was moving across the other side of the world, right? And a lot of people are selling their businesses for retirement to move somewhere else. So imagine me getting the call, like that would be no use to me whatsoever. Like that is not a headache that I need or want. So it comes back again to the people that we claim to need in this sale process are not asking you these questions. They are not asking what why you're selling. They're not asking what you need from this, and and that can lead to you being really pressured by a broker to take a deal that is not in your best interest. Right,
Collin 50:57
Kaz. In closing, here is there any just someone sitting here, they're thinking about this. Maybe they are interested in selling. They've they've kind of thought about this for a while. What's the first step or two you'd recommend they take?
Kaz Kelly 51:12
I think we need an audit of your business, right? We need to come in and see if you if you have sat at night and thought, oh, you know, I might, yeah, you know, I don't want to do another summer in my business. You know, we're rounding up the end of summer. I don't want to do another summer in my business. We need to come in and see your business, and we need to see what needs to be fixed. We need to look at it through a buyer's eyes. I don't care if you don't take action from that day, but then you know, you know, you have some guidance and you have some answers, and you have some insight into what your business is looking like right now through a buyer's eyes, and it might either push you to get on the market really quickly because you're in really good standing, or you might be like, "Oof, I I've got some work to do, or actually, it's not going too bad, and I can hold on a bit longer with these few changes. But we don't know what we don't know, and having someone that has been through the process of what you want to walk through, I think is invaluable. And an audit shows you these things that you just can't see yourself. So I think that would be my first step.
Collin 52:16
Kaz, I really want to thank you for coming on the show today and sharing this with us, and really thinking about selling of the business and the maintaining of a business aspirationally, having it been within us now and those practical steps that we can take to start headed in that direction. I know this is a really big topic, and there's a lot more here. So if people want to get in touch with you, follow along and maybe pick your brain on this stuff, how best can they do that?
Kaz Kelly 52:42
Yeah, best bet is to find me on my website. I give a free 30-minute chat as well. So if you're like, "Oh my God, I don't know what to do, or "I just want to see what this might be like, that's your best bet. And my website is just www.foundedofutureconsulting.com. I'm also on Instagram, founded a future the number two, and we can have a chat and go from there. But I give lots of videos on social media about things to start thinking about as well. So little prompts, which I think is really helpful for people to get into their mind frame of what does my business look like as a buyer.
Collin 53:16
Awesome. Well, Kaz, again, thank you so much. I've really, really enjoyed this conversation and has been my absolute pleasure. Thank you for coming on the show today.
Kaz Kelly 53:24
Thank you for having me. It's been great, Collin. Thank you.
Collin 53:27
I loved when Kaz said, "We don't know what we don't know, and having someone that has been through the process of what we want to walk through is invaluable. We couldn't agree more. That's the entire reason for behind the podcast and why we do it. We want to help share stories, and we believe that when people are connected to people doing the things that they want to do, or have walked through the season that they desperately want to walk through, or desperately want to avoid, we believe when people hear that, they're better. That helps the industry learn faster, respond quicker, mature in a more healthy way. Do you have that in your life? Do you have that in your business? We talked about selling and exiting the business today with Kaz, but beyond that, more than that, do you have places where you can go and talk about the problems that you are experiencing right now. Do you have that person who can help you think through the implications of the decisions that you are trying to make? Do you have a community around you to support you, encourage you, and share their own experiences? We believe that that is what every single one of us as business owners should be seeking out after, all the time, we should have that, know that, experience that, because when we are alone and when we feel alone, that isolation drives not just the mental and emotional burden, but it also leads to hopelessness and. Business because we can't see past the problem in front of us. I want to encourage you to go find that person. Those people doesn't have to always be in dog walking, in pet sitting, in cat sitting. Doesn't have to be in that. Other industries can help us learn and encourage us as well. Turns out, a lot of businesses hire. A lot of businesses have to market. A lot of businesses are faced with the same things that we do, as well. Find your people, get connected, and start growing and living the business that you actually want. We want to thank today's sponsors, Time to Pet and Dog Co Launch, for making this show possible. We also really want to thank you for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and we'll be back again soon.
