629: Shaping Industry Standards with Jenn Dahinten, Chair of PACCC
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What does it really mean to be a professional in the pet care industry? In this episode, Jenn Dahinten, Chair of PACCC, joins to explore the importance of third-party certification in setting industry standards. She shares how PACCC was founded to support experienced pet care providers with recognition, ethics, and continuing education. The conversation dives into the rising pressure from legislation, public expectations, and why certification helps build trust with clients and lawmakers alike. Jenn also offers practical steps for those ready to elevate their professionalism.
Main topics:
Third-party certification vs. online courses
Legislative pressure and industry regulation
Career progression in pet care
The role of ethics and continuing education
How professionals can influence legislation
Main takeaway: “There is a skill set, both taught and intuitive, that’s required to provide care for a pet when their owner is away.”– Jenn Dahinten
Too often, pet care is seen as simple or instinctual—just for “animal lovers.” But Jenn Dahinten reminds us that caring for someone else’s pet isn’t the same as caring for your own. It demands education, experience, and emotional intelligence. Certification through PACCC proves that you take your role seriously, and that you’re committed to excellence in your profession. When pet parents leave their pets in our care, they deserve nothing less than a certified professional.
About our guest: Jenn Dahinten became the owner, and operator of Royal Pets Hotel and Enrichment in 2009 and founded the charitable “Racers Fund”, for retired service dogs shortly after. Having been a pet parent and client of pet care facilities on four different continents she relished the opportunity to provide the kind of loving care, expertise, and professionalism that she always felt our fur family deserved. Before joining the pet care industry, Jenn first was a paramedic (human). Jenn studied Biochemistry at the University of Guelph, Ambulance and Emergency Care at Conestoga College, and then Advanced Life Support Paramedic (L3) at the University of Natal. During her years of providing air/ground emergency care across continental Africa, Europe, and the UK, Jenn was also active in providing veterinary assistance at local small animal practices and shelters. During a subsequent career in pharmaceutical sales, marketing, and training, Jenn returned to Canada and discovered her calling in the pet care and education industry. From the start, Jenn has been an advocate for fear free practices across grooming and training and has ensured that Royal Pets has been at the forefront of setting the standard in pet care. Royal Pets has been a part of both the IBPSA and The Dog Gurus since their inception and is proud to be an active member of the APDT, Fear Free ™ Organization, and PACCC. Jenn continues to provide education and training opportunities locally and within her industry and continues to champion continuing education, certification, regulation, and professionalism as some of the many necessary means to guarantee our pets get the care and attention they deserve.
Links:
PACCC: https://PACCERT.ORG
Check out their Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pacccsocial
Alabama Legislation: https://www.billtrack50.com/billdetail/1885956
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Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Pet Sitter Confessional, its hosts, or sponsors. We interview individuals based on their experience and expertise within the pet care industry. Any statements made outside of this platform, or unrelated to the topic discussed, are solely the responsibility of the guest.
A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Pet care certification, professional standards, industry ethics, legislative advocacy, pet care providers, third-party certification, continuing education, professional recognition, industry regulations, pet care industry, professional development, pet care services, industry standards, pet care professionals, industry legislation
SPEAKERS
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC, Collin
Collin 00:00
Foreign Welcome to pet sitter confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. Today, we're brought to you by our friends at time,
Collin 00:15
she's Chair of the professional Animal Care certification Council, or PAC, she joins the show to talk about the importance of raising the standards and of professional certificates in pet care. She covers everything from industry ethics to legislative advocacy, and she also explains how PAC supports pet care providers. We dive right into the middle of this conversation, so get your something. Megan and I have been seeing increasingly across all of the industries, dog walking, pet sitting, boarding, daycare. I I see you run a hotel, the Royal pets hotel here, and I will dive into that here in the United States, you know, it's unregulated. There's nothing really that's tying anything together. And we're seeing more court cases, more local laws and regulations and more local things. And I've long held that regulations born out of passion are much better than those born out of punishment. And if we can
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 01:16
born out of experience,
Collin 01:19
yes, yeah. And so if we can have, if we as an industry, no matter you know, can have some idea of what we want, how we want to self regulate, through certifications, through courses, through trainings, through stuff, it makes it easier. I had, I had an experience, so I worked for the State of Missouri as a biologist, and we worked a lot with regulators and enforcers and counties and commissions and EPA and all. You know, we're kind of the go between. And one thing that I'll never forget, my biggest lesson from that was, if you can show up with a solution, the people making decisions love you a lot.
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 01:58
Absolutely, absolutely,
Collin 02:01
and them, hey, here's what we're already doing, or here's a proposal for what we'd like this look that it just helps that process a lot more. And so
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 02:11
at the end of the day, the legislators, they don't want to do any of this coming out of punishment. They're they're being backed into a quarter because they're constituents the people who vote for them and the people who ultimately write their paycheck, they are saying, Whoa, we've got a problem. Look what happened. This is horrible. This is awful, and something needs to be done about it. And so yes, the easier we can make that process for them. And if we can actually turn around and you know, they can be forgiven for thinking that the industry is broken when that's what they're hearing. And what we need to do is we need to remind them, actually, there's a lot of professionals out there. It's not completely broken. Yeah, you just need to put a few steps and measures in place to make it easy for pet parents to find the professionals and not go by the wayside and find the individuals who just said, you know, gosh, I I just like to take care of pets. And boy, if I take in this many, look at how much money I can make, right? And I, and I'm not going to actually put any effort into learning what I should be doing, because, you know what, when I was six, I had a dog, yeah, right. And, you know it, there's more to it than that. Yeah. So, yeah,
Collin 03:32
it is and, and that, you know, it's resources to help find, but also help differentiate and distinguish
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 03:39
100% Absolutely, who's a professional and who isn't.
Collin 03:43
And, you know, we often think about, you know, in our own businesses, of like, well, I have to differentiate myself from everybody else, so I'm gonna focus on my branding. I'm gonna focus on my messaging when it first go my marketing and my services and my backgrounds, all stuff, but from a client education perspective, like Meg and I have long held like you, I can do all of that stuff. But if the client doesn't know to care, it's it. You're kind of just hoping you're going to catch people on a good day where they're like, You know what? That those, those letters after your name? What do those mean?
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 04:13
Like, I'm going to turn around and I'm going to say that you vote you guys should be PAC certified. And because what your clients your clients don't necessarily need to know what pa CCC means. They don't necessarily need to know that they all know what board certified means. Doesn't matter what industry they know what board certified means. That is the pinnacle. That is, you've attained the highest level, you have third party you have passed a standard to be able to say that you're board certified. And so that's the simple part about when we have we're at the stage where you can be the first one. In your area, you could be the first one in your state, in your province, in your county. And you know, your potential customers, they don't, you don't have to educate them per se, unpack individually, yeah, you can get immediate recognition. You can get immediate market distinction by the fact that you are board certified, because, you know, right now, one of the threats and one of the problems we do have in our industry, which I'm sure you will see an awful lot as you're trying to distinguish yourself, is with online education, which, do not get me wrong, I'm not going to poo poo online education. Thank you. Thank you for doing something. Thank you for, you know, putting the effort in to learn. But the fact of the matter is, you pay money, you sit through, you click a couple buttons, and now you've got a certificate. Yeah. What does that certificate mean? So standardized Third Party is the only way that you can actually consistently say this means something,
Collin 06:01
yeah, well, and part of that too is also educating other industries. I have been consistently surprised by going and talking to veterinary clinics or groomers or daycares or groomers or say groomers I may have that's okay, like you go and you're talking to the people in these industries, and they have no idea of what standards are out there as well. And
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 06:26
so the fact that there's a third party certification, and you know, you bring up the veterinary community, the veterinary community absolutely loves that. We have relationship with the AVMA, we have relationship with the various bodies that are governing the veterinary technicians here in Ontario, with the oabt, and they absolutely love professionals who have jumped through all the hoops. Absolutely love to refer and to work with and to collaborate with other professionals, somebody else just had to jump through all the hoops. So immediately, it creates a relationship that's much more collaborative, without doing anything different, other than the fact that you have said, I'm a professional, I've sat a standardized test, I abide by a code of ethics and morals. I could be struck off, and I do continuing education just like you
Collin 07:22
well, because we often forget how, how a recommendation is really an indictment on the person giving it and the outcome, right? So, so the vet, you come in, you say, I'm a professional, and they go, yeah, so are the other 25 people who just came in and threw cards at me. What are you talking about?
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 07:39
Like, exactly, and being
Collin 07:41
able to have that like that, something that they can recognize as legitimate, I think that's really what this is getting to because PAC has been around for. How long has PAC been around?
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 07:51
So we started certifying individuals in 2016 Okay, yeah. So since 2016 PAC a group of industry experts across pet boarding, daycare and pet sitting all got together. There was over 60 who were part of the various knowledge based development teams, exam Writing teams, fundraising, marketing, etc, to get Pat going. And it was born out of a desire, one from on a personal level, to get that professional recognition. You know, you had people, they've been in the industry, you know, you do something for 30 years, and you can have other industries kind of look at you and sort of go like, it's a backyard hobby. Yeah, right, you're, you're considered an hobbyist. And it's, I'm not a hobbyist. This is my profession. This is a vocation. This is, this is a deal. This is something and they lamented and sort of fantasized almost about that day when you would advertise for certified people. So people would go to school, they'd go to college, they'd get training, they do Co Op placements, they'd get their hands on, etc. And you would have that business where you'd have certain positions where you would be advertising for, you know, I would like, you know, a, you know, this degree, this certification, are the only people who should apply and but also then, on a personal level, they wanted that. They wanted those letters after their name. They wanted that recognition that what they do is professional. They and so they started looking at, well, what's the definition of professional? Well, okay, so initially, definition professional is, is receiving goods or money in exchange for a service, right for something that makes you a professional. There's an awful lot of people who make money out of doing it. So are they really professional, or they're providing professional services? What makes them a professional? So you started looking around other industries and. And you know, you look at law, you look at medicine, you look at heavens, you look at being an electrician, right? You look at being a teacher. You look at all of these different a mechanic working on a car. You look at all of these different things. And there's sort of a hallmark, and hallmark is a standardized exam that everybody takes, regardless of where they get their education from. So you have multiple providers of education. They write a standardized exam, they agree to conduct themselves in a certain manner based on their industry guidelines. So there's a code of conduct, morals and ethics. And then the final thing is that it's not one and done. You don't do it, and now for 30 years you're good, you actually have to stay on top of things. You have to do continuing education. So it's a finite period of time that you get before you have to prove that you are staying current and that you're doing continuing education? And so there was a lot of people across the industry who realized, well, we do that already on our own right. We put ourselves through tests, we abide by a code of ethics and morals, and we're willing to say that, you know, it's stringent. And you know what, if I didn't behave accordingly, I should be publicly shamed, and look at me, I'm going off, and I'm doing all this continuing education, and I'm staying current. So they realized that they were in every shape of a definition of the term, conducting themselves as professionals. They just weren't getting the recognition. So they started the process. It's an incredibly lengthy, laborious and tricky process. There's a whole industry around being allowed to award third party professional credentials. They started that process of jumping through all of the hoops, everything that they had to do to come up with a professional designation for a pet care provider, somebody providing care to someone else's pets on a professional relationship
Collin 12:07
well. And there's, there's a lot there. Jen, let me go back. I love that. One of the aspects was a dream for a day where you could write a job ad for specific requirements and certifications that really shows and it's a it would be a level of maturity in the industry that I think it's all that we all want. We all want a night. You see it across various industries and things I'm going no, there are things that I can require more than flexible schedule and passionate for pets, right? Like, that's kind
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 12:39
of dogs, that's kind of a given right. Must can't be allergic to cats. Must love cats. Like, come on it that. Yeah, we all have recent history when that's what we were advertising for.
Collin 12:53
Oh, well, many, many of us still find ourselves in that of like, okay, what are my requirements for my business because of where I am, or because the level of acceptance and general knowledge of these things out there that people are going and getting on their own. It's really, is it? I think that's a great thing that we should all strive for, is a level of maturity in the business, in the industry, where we could require certifications without us really having to pay for them. Because right now, it's a lot of things like, Well, yeah, I've got to pay you for pet first aid and CPR, and I've got to pay for you to go for these trainings, because nobody has these, but to have reach a state where it's just common, like, Oh, you want to be a pet sitter or a dog walker. Here's what you go, here's the trajectory, here's the course that you need to go through so that you can apply for the job of the industry to get that position and treating it like everything
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 13:41
else, yeah, yeah. And, well, we're partway there. You know, we're partway there. You know, pact certification is actually one of the things that helps us take a lot of those disparate pieces and unite them. Are we in the position where you have PAC certified individuals out there applying for new jobs? Not yet, per se, we see a little bit of it. I do know, I have seen, you know, people who have said, Yay, I just hired somebody, and they're already PAC certified as a manager, and it was, you know, the excitement, the absolute excitement, because, you know, immediately, there we go. You know, there's a guarantee there of knowledge experience, but also of conduct, because they still have the certification. They've not been struck off. Yeah, right, that's exciting. And so, you know, we're partway there. We still there isn't a, you know, there's a lot of different education providers. We are able to, through our CEU process, we're able to look at a lot of the different providers who have submitted content to us to say to. Can this be pre approved? So if somebody goes to takes our course, can they use those hours towards their recertification? Well, they they have to share that content with us. We have to go through it, and we're able to say, yeah, absolutely. That's great continuing education. We now know then that that provider is providing initial training content that is good. So we're able to say to individuals, you know, hey, little heads up, maybe try to get some of your education from and we can point them in the right direction. The thing about the exam and where we are at, as you say, as far as that maturity of the industry is the fact we are on a bit of a cusp at the moment, and it's both an opportunity and has at the same time, represented some of our challenges. And that is, we are an industry where there's a lot of very conscientious, professional, skilled individuals working in equally conscientious, respectable businesses, or working on their own. They've been doing it for 3040, 20 years, and they're not going to turn around and say, Hey, I'm going to go take this course. You don't have to, you challenge the exam, prove that you know what you know, if you've stayed current, as far as collaborating with colleagues, right? You haven't operated in a bubble. If you don't operate in a bubble, which is another key of being a professional, right? Just sitting off on your own little way. I'm the only one who does it right, and I'm not going to share trade secrets and all that sort of stuff. You're not really a professional within an industry. You are a definition, a sole operator, 100% on your own, not going to take any constructive criticism, etc. But if you collaborate and you pay attention, then you know what industry recommendations. What industry norms are? You've heard that, and so yes, you should be able to pass a pack exam if you've been conducting yourself at and you know the humane pet care statement putting all needs, the needs of the pets first, above all other business considerations, you can pass an exam. Well, you
Collin 17:27
mentioned that cusp that you feel like pack is on, and part of that, you mentioned our industry as a whole, yeah, of there's these, these, there's a group of people who say, I don't need that. I could also imagine there's a group of people that just have misgivings about any kind of program like this anyway, because of the proliferation of the here's a three hour course you can sit through and get something emailed to you. And here's this thing that you can go through. And what you're saying is, this is a cut above, or, let's say, three cuts above. We'll do that above, above those. So there's, there's the skepticism that people have around the need and reason for these. Well,
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 18:07
there's a misconception, and it's, it's born out of, as I say, just the proliferation of certificate courses, of getting certificates, and the ease of accessing those. And so the first misconception is just truly understanding what third party certification means, truly understanding what a professional credential is, right? We, in order to award a professional credential, we can't educate So to put it into context, the bar, the state, bar, whatever state you're in, they award the ability, the license to be a licensed practitioner, a solicitor, a lawyer. They don't provide the education, right? They certify the knowledge. That's what PAC is. We don't provide the education, we certify the knowledge and because part of our qualifying, qualifying criteria to write the exams is actually even at, you know? So we have three different levels. Those three levels are not I don't view them as being one is better than the other. I just view them as being different. They serve a couple of purposes. So yes, you can't. They can serve the purpose of career progression. So you can have somebody starting off in the industry, and they're going to start as a provider, as their career advances, and as they move through, if they're, you know, not a sole operator, and they do go on to, like you and your wife, establish a business, and so now there's man management, etc. They choose to expand their career, and so they go on to get a further certification, great, but because this is a certification, and because professionalism is coming to an already established industry, yeah. We have three different levels, so that whatever role you currently provide within a business, there is something that reflects your day to day life a little bit more so, and maybe makes it a little less daunting to sit down and be tested on it. So the operator level, you have somebody who's been running a business for 25 years, and they haven't been hands on pet care for a few years. Obviously, they still have the knowledge, they have the experience, et cetera, but they're a little bit daunted by the idea of, oh no, taking that exam. But a lot of their life is man management. It's occupational health and safety, it's finance, it's marketing, it's customer relations. So we have the operator exam that actually is going to reduce how much there still is the animal care, but it's a portion of the exam, and you've got all these other areas. So it's very, very reflective. The key about all three levels is hands on, it's having time spent. So even at the provider level, it's not restrictive. It's 400 hours, it's three months. But we're basically saying that you have to have taken whatever knowledge you've got. Yes, you got it online, yes, you got it working on the job. Yes, you got it by taking your course. We need to know that for at least three months, hands on, you've applied that knowledge now you can take an exam. So for people now, you're sort of sitting here, and you're looking at at this credential, and it's actually saying, I've got hands on experience. My knowledge has been tested. I'm abiding by a code of ethics and morals, and I indeed, will be doing continuing education. None of that education will come from us. It has to come from third party. It has to come from elsewhere. That's the biggest misconception that we have. They'll say so why you're training. And also, we don't train. Use the training provider that you like that resonates for your business and you know, and if you want to make sure you're and you're feeling a little bit concerned, you know, gosh, there's a lot of you know, because once again, somebody can just hold up a little plaque and say, Hey, I now train Yes. So, you know it, reach out. Reach out to us that, you know, those that are providing good content are reaching out to pack to have us to look at their content, to say, you know, is this good?
Collin 22:33
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Speaker 1 22:37
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Collin 22:57
improving. If you're looking for new pet sitting software, give time to cut a try. Listeners of our show will save 50% off your first three months by visiting time. So those three levels? Did those? Did you start with those three levels, or did those develop over time? Okay,
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 23:14
developed. It developed. So we started with the provider, and very quickly the industry started talking about the fact that, you know, well, you know, my manager, I'd really like my manager to have something differently, or my supervisors, and so they did actually, you know, decide that, yeah, they're a career progression. And also from a little bit of pushback from some of those legacy operators who have been doing it for such a long period of time, who quite honestly, were nervous about taking the provider exam. When they stood back, they were like, gosh, it's been a long time since I did all of that. And so it was almost like an embarrassment, kind of thing. And and so, yeah, so it, it serves a lot of purposes. It reflects what people actually do in their day to day. It provides for career advancement, and it allows for, you know, if we're looking at, you know, larger businesses, a way of potentially rolling it out amongst their staff, you know. So are they going to, where are they going to start? And for an awful lot, you know, they'll start at the operator. So, you know, the big kahuna will go ahead and we'll do the operator. And then it's like, Okay, let's get our, you know, our team leaders or managers, let's get them doing the manager. Or just, they do the operator, and then just, everybody does provider. Or they go ahead, they do provider first, then they roll it out to the rest of the team. From the point of view of improving and raising standards in our industry, you only need one you only need one provider. Provider is perfect. Pet parents aren't really going to worry about the distinguishing levels. I think as. As our industry matures, like you said, As we mature, that those different levels will become much more relevant. From the point of view of recruiting, when you're recruiting for a manager position, you're going to recruit, you're going to want somebody who is either pack manager certified or they are they qualify to write the exam, so they've got that time under the belt, etc, etc. So I think they'll become much more relevant as time goes on. Right now, it's just pick the best fit for you.
Collin 25:30
How are you all working to overcome the skepticism and some of the pushback that you get from from your the program, from the accreditation?
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 25:38
Yeah. So first and foremost, it has to be, it's that education. It's not talk about, what does third party mean? So it's really just drilling home third party. The The next thing that we have is we do have an element of, as I say, that that pushback from those that have been doing it for 30 years, and they're like, Why do I have to do it now? Like that doesn't make any sense. And so quite honestly, with those individuals, they've been doing it for 3040, years. They now have staff. I'm not coming across an awful lot of people who have chosen to be a sole operator for 30 years. There are, there are those that have and and power to them. Many times when we're all dealing with our teams, there are the occasion where we sit back, we think, oh, gosh, if it was just me. So you know, power to them. But having said all of that, more often not they have staff. So when you start discussing with them about that standardizing, so we'll start talking about your people, about, you know, you chose it as a career, everyone that's moving forward education. You know, higher education is just something that is so much more attainable and happening for a much greater percentage of our population than it used to 30 years ago. And does that mean, then, that our industry isn't one that, you know, people who go on to hire shouldn't be looking at? No, of course, they should be looking at it's it's as more rewarding, and many respond many ways, but it is credible, it's responsible, and it is professional. Absolutely, it can be a long term career. So we really will market it on the idea that, you know, it's giving that opportunity for your staff. So staff retention. It can be a tool for staff retention right now, timing wise, when we look at that, you know where the cusp, where we are our industry is legislation. Legislation legislation is huge. It is happening absolutely everywhere. And so as lawmakers find themselves, and as you say, unfortunately, it does seem to be that it's it's reactive. So there is the horrible experience that somebody has to go through, there is a loss of life, and then the public outcry, and then the response, oh my gosh. Because then they realize, holy cow, we've got this whole industry out there. And anybody can hang up a shingle and say, This is what I do. Yeah, it's, it's, it's perilous, from a pet point of view, it can be very perilous because, you know, you think of it, you know, website, you can go, I visited websites where I'm like, wow, look at that. That's amazing. And then you go visit and you're like, holy cow, I need somebody to redo my website. If you can make this look like that. It's horrible, but it's possible. Yeah, there the level, the ability for misrepresentation, the ability for kind hearted, nice people just wanting to earn an extra buck. They love their dog, they love their cat, they want to take in somebody else's dog and cat. I'm not going to blame them and fault them for that at all, but as a pet parent, I may want to make a different choice. How do I make that choice? How do I figure out all all all of those in, ins and outs. And so as lawmakers step forward and try to legislate, the problem that we have is that they because there's been a negative experience, they're coming at it from the point of view that it is a dirty industry, and so they don't look from within. They look at who's made the noise. They'll look potentially. They'll go to our esteemed colleagues within the veterinary world, who, as much as we love and appreciate the work that they do and we love working with them. I don't know if there's anybody here who has recruited from. Within veterinary there is still a learning curve if they're going to now provide 24 hour care of non sick pets, right? I had a lovely vet my area. I adore him to this day, and big customer of ours, he has a veterinary clinic that offer it offers boarding, yet he uses my facility for his pets when he's going away. Love it. Never going to stop him from doing that. But early on, I asked him the question. I said, Listen. I said, you know, I love it for my own why you have people you're already paying? Why are you bringing your pets here? And he looked at me, and he goes, because they're not sick. To him, it made the he's like, they're not sick. He goes, I provide boarding for set I don't provide boarding for well, now there are vet veterinary practices more south of the border, as in more of them in the US than in Canada, but there are veterinary practices that do do recreational, fun style boarding, and who do have staff who offer In Home Pet Sitting services, etc, which is fantastic, but for the most part, their experience of pet care is acute. Our experience of pet care is day to day. Yeah. So we need when that, when those laws are being drawn up and when those rules are being put in place, you need somebody who's actually done it. And so if you think an industry is dirty, you don't look within. You go from outside. And one of the things that we at PAC are very proactive about doing, we are not a trade association first and foremost. So we do not speak for the industry. We certify the knowledge, we prove the knowledge of the industry. We maintain the professionalism and the conduct of certified professionals. We work closely with the trade association. So that we do have a trade association across our industry that covers boarding, pet sitting, Pet Services. So there is the ibpsa. There are pet sitters associations as well. They can speak on behalf of their members. But what we do do is we reach out to lawmakers, whether it's at the city, the county, the State Department of Agriculture, because it who governs what is different all across the US, all across Canada, all across South America, all across the UK and Europe. We're actively involved with all and we reach out and we let them know. Hey, when you find yourself visiting your legislation around this industry, please be aware there are already professionals in your area who have chosen to prove they know what they know by sitting a standardized exam, have taken an oath to abide by the code of ethics and morals, and have said and publicly strike me off and shame me if I don't. And who pursue continuing education to keep this professional designation valid, they stepped forward without legislation, without public pressure to do this, those are the people who should be on your steering committee when you are drafting legislation. Yeah, that has been really big and very, very key for us to help overcome some of those legacy providers who are sitting back going, do I really need to do this. This is why you do because you have so much to offer and you're not going to be given the chance because you only invite professionals to the table. You provide professionals and you invite users, end users, so but the thing is, who are they going to have? They're going to have the upset mom who should have a voice, but shouldn't be the only voice,
Collin 34:15
right? Yeah, why was it important for you to maintain that distinction between trade association and certification a third party group,
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 34:24
because we are the certifying board. So as such, you know the trade association, if you look across the not just we won't look at our industry if we look outside our our industry. So if we look at veterinary medicine, let's go back 100 years. Let's go back 80 years. Right prior to that, you learned your trade by doing, by shadowing, going alongside education started coming into it. So you started to have different schools of of medic, of. Veterinary medicine. People are getting trained. And forgive me, anybody who's listening, if I got the timeline wrong, my country's history will be different than your own. But you know, as as as we go along, and so when we look at any industry that has become regulated, there is a clear defining line of what is required and what has happened, and trade association speaks, unites all the voices, brings all the voices together and speaks on behalf of the voices. Let's be honest, in our industry. Will everybody be PAC certified? No. Will there be lots of professionals out there and lots of businesses associated with pet care who should have a voice? Yes. So what happens is, you have the trade association who speaks for all you have the certifying body who provides professional credentials, standardized testing for those who become professionally credentialed. There are trade associations and industries that are mature enough that you have to be professionally credentialed to be part of the trade association. Yeah. So that will come. Will it be in my lifetime? I don't know, but it will come. Of course it will come, if we look at the EU so, you know the European Union right now, they're busy going through a process, and part of what they're looking at is mandating a professional certification for providers across the board, you won't be allowed to provide any pet boarding, any pet sitting, any walk, dog Walking services without a professional credential, as the that is some of the stuff that the EU is pursuing. We're not in North America that you wouldn't be able to do that. And truthfully, the EU, it would have such a long roll in period to achieve that. But the further or the closer we are to that, when legislation is drawn up, the better our industry is. And
Collin 37:29
that's part of we just, we want to be ahead of that as much as possible. And I think that's really what you're saying. You have to, we
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 37:35
have to stay ahead of it if we, because otherwise the rules get written for us. And you know, if we, if we sit back and we look so and I apologize, I should have looked it up before, before caught, you know, you and I sitting down there one of the states, I want to say it's Alabama. And I may be incorrect, and I apologize to every Alabama. There is a jurisdiction, a region, I want to say at Southeast us, where a legislator has tabled a first draft of legislation, and his wants to say that anybody providing pet boarding dog daycare now, then that opens up the whole thing. Well, what does dog daycare mean? If you take in three dogs a day, does that mean that you're providing dog daycare, right? There's boom, if there's lots of area there for interpretation. But he's also then looking at grooming salons. He has said that grooming salons that employ a certain number of people in a calendar year. In a calendar year, holy cow, you don't necessarily have to be very big to turn around and say, Oh, well, I employ 15 people in a year. Yeah, I might have only had three at a time, but across the year, it was 15 if you provide any of those services, he is saying you'd have to employ. You'd have to employ that.
Collin 39:05
Yeah, it is Alabama. It is Alabama. I've seen that. I'm gonna actually provide a link to that in the show notes so people can read this and be, be horrified about what people think again, not that this kind of thing isn't isn't bad, but they're not having conversations with the actual professional.
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 39:18
It's not practical. Yes, it's not practical. And the fear about it being so impractical is that it there's absolutely nothing the matter with and I gonna qualify this term because, you know there, there has been time in days gone past where, I think, you know, you had the, you know, maybe the ABK age, the American Board and kennel Association. You had, you know, pet sitters. And they were not, they were not seen as the same industry, right? When you have things like, you know, ibpsa, your pet sitters International, you have PAC you have all. Of these organizations coming together and recognizing we are all the same industry, yeah, pushing putting legislation like that in place makes it not feasible. It forces it underground. It takes our industry back underground. It takes it the old term that used to be used, which I don't like, which is backyard, because it's nothing the matter with offering services out of your backyard. But the whole idea, I think we used to use that term to just talk about it being underground, sort of not being a above board, credentialed, operating professionally, out in the open business, because if you do that, then you're going to be subject to this unrealistic legislation. Nobody can do that. Nobody can afford to use a service that requires that. So now you know the the operators can't do it because they can't afford to provide it at the cost that people are willing to pay. People can't afford to pay it. It all gets driven underground, and that has the exact opposite effect on the industry of what that legislation is trying to achieve. That legislation is trying to safeguard the health and the wellness of our charges, and instead, it's putting us right back into the hands of who knows,
Collin 41:22
as pet sitters, we're there for the joyful moments and the heartbreaking ones too. When a client loses a pet, finding the right gift can be hard. That's where pet perennials comes in. They make it easy to send thoughtful, sympathy and milestone gifts with a handwritten card, colorful gift wrap and shipping fees included in the US and Canada. You choose the gift they handle the rest. Sign up for a free gift perks account and get discounted pricing with no fees or minimums. Learn more@petpurniales.com Well, if you've ever tried to apply for like a city or regional award for under pet care, I don't know up where you live, Jen, but down where we are, there is no dog walking and pet sitting category. And I think, you know, many of us get we get frustrated. We rail against that. We get frustrated, like, stop lumping me in. Make your own category. And if we're that passionate about that to get an award, how much more so should we be passionate about having legislation and things that actually apply to us specifically, and aren't just broad brushstroke that kind of sweep us up and we get caught up into this, and all of a sudden we go, I This isn't me. And that's, that's why these
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 42:31
not realistic. Yeah, to say, you know, I, I offer you know, so my business north of Toronto, we are, we are bricks and mortar. And so I, you know, we offer boarding services. I like to call it vacation services, because the negative connotation of boarding. But, you know, so we're doing, we are doing boarding services. We're doing dog daycare, not traditional, because we're very small group. We're doing grooming. We're we have training, and we offer pet taxi, right? So we're doing it all. Having said all of that, I 100% understand that there are either individual pets or families or entire swaths communities that it's either just not their preference, or it's not actually appropriate for the pet to come to a bricks and mortar facility, an in home solution, whether it's a visit solution, or whether it is staying in somebody's home, is actually preferable for that pet, Just the same as there's the pets that don't thrive with home visits or staying in somebody else's homes, they do better in bricks and mortar. We're all the same industry. We're all trying to achieve the same thing, and that is provide the best care for the pets and getting together and having a unified voice and making sure that that legislation that gets put forward accommodates the different styles is key. It's key because that's the only way we can put the needs of the pet first. To say that this is the only way that's not putting the needs of the pet before all all other business needs. That's what has to happen. You know, our biggest thing about our humane pet care statement is, and about our ethics and morals is the fact that the needs of the pet must come first above all other business considerations. So that includes whether you're going to a bricks and mortar, whether you're going to go to, you know, use a an actual individual pet sitter or a pet sitting service that's going to put you in contact with the pet sitter. All of the above apply. They're all relevant. They're all contributing to our industry. But we need to work together to make sure that the voices are heard, and the best way to get our voices heard and to get people. At the table is to get professionally third party certified, because then, regardless of what an individual's background is within government, within legislation, they understand you're professionally credentialed, and they want to work with professionals.
Collin 45:21
Jen, you're obviously very passionate about this. How did you get involved with Pac and kind of what's your background into the organization?
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 45:28
Well, when I first made the transition, my background is actually science, biochemistry. I was a paramedic air ambulance and then went into Pharmaceutical Research and Development, and ultimately, then marketing, and I came across to the industry as a pet parent. I was a pet parent. I had used services. I had two very high, demanding Special Needs dogs. I had an epileptic Dalmatian, and I had a very selective with who she enjoyed in the canine world, staffageable Terrier when I, when I lived in, when I lived in the UK, and, you know, but you know, traveling Professional, my husband, I active, social life, no kids, and we use pet care facilities regularly. We had two that we absolutely adored. We loved the people, the level of expertise that they brought. We loved their style of care, et cetera, et cetera. And so we used them regularly. When we lived in the UK, we made the decision to move to Canada. We moved to Canada, and First things first, I gotta look around. I gotta find out who's gonna take care of my babies when we're off out living our life, because we're gonna go away at weekends. We're gonna go on our vacations, etc. We still had that European mind, and and pre children mind, we didn't have necessarily the realism of that life was about to sort of change that, but we, we did. We're doing our research. And to be honest, I discovered the typical Ontario old style kennel. Our dogs were going to be in an enclosure. They were going to be safe, they would be fed, and they would be watered. And I was it. And I was like, I got these are babies, right? Like they they're it's four of us in the bed every night. How are they going to survive this transition? And and I couldn't do it, so I we just, we stopped living the life that we had been living, because there wasn't anywhere that could provide the kind of care that we needed for our pets. Fast forward a number of years, and we were using a facility we had found. We'd inherited a boat, and so we were wanted to go out on a boat at the weekend, and realized at the last minute that, oh dear Lord, by this point, our Dalmatian and Staffy had had moved on and and we now had, at this time, we had an 11 month old Great Dane, and we had three children under the age of five. And we were getting ready, we were going to go out on this boat, spend a weekend living on this boat. And we suddenly realized, oh, this might not be a really good idea. And so we're like, we got to do something here. And so I got in touch with my mom, and it was like, you know, you've got to take Maggie for us and my mother with her, you know, beige carpets and a little royal Dalton figurines on her coffee end tables. And just had this mental picture of the Great Dane tale, right? And she looked at me, and she's like, not a snowball's chance, sweetheart. And but then she reminded me she had visited me in the UK, because I am obviously always Canadian. My husband's the Brit that I brought back. And when they had visited us in the UK, they had and they were so proud. They told everybody when they were in England, but the fact that, well, their cat was staying at the Royal, the Royal pets hotel. And so she said to me, she goes, you know, remember where, where slasher stayed. Slasher, slasher kitty cat Asher, he had stayed there. And she said, they do dogs, too. So I reached out to them, discovered that that British influence, they they were very similar to what we'd use in the UK, and so we use them. And when I saw what they had, etc, and so I said that whole weekend out on the boat, I kept saying to my husband, you know, I want to do that. I want to do that. I want to do what they're doing. We could do that. I want to do that. And, you know, I'm. Imagine, imagine providing care. Imagine taking care of them, the kids, we could grow up and be a family industry and and my husband, at that point, eventually just got frustrated he'd seen on the website. He said, they're for sale. I was like, so yeah, within three months, we had bought the business, moved on site, got involved, and as part of that rapid, you know, coming on board phase, the first thing I had had a little bit of experience in in the medical side. So when I was air ambulance in Zimbabwe, for people, you get a lot of downtime. So I had a week every month, and I used to spend that time in a veterinary clinic as a veterinary assistant, so I had a little bit more handling experience than just having been a pet parent. But the first thing I'm thinking is, I'm about to go into this industry professionally. You know, I need to have so I need to get a team together. I need to hire people discovering this whole phenomenon of trying to hire people with experience, because I don't have it. But where am I going to get the experience from? Where am I going to get my training from? What certification I start thinking, There's got to be, you know credentials that I need to get to be allowed to do this, and that's when I discover what is really the standard across most jurisdictions, and that is you need to have either a kennel license or a business license for specifically what it is you want to do. And to qualify for that, it's about, in my area, it was about having adequate drainage and agreeing to noise control. Literally, that was it. Now, if you do a little man on the street, street thing, you know, grab a microphone, fake one even grab a microphone, go stand on the street corner, and you start asking pet parents, yeah, do pet care providers? Do they need? What do they need in order to be in business, they'll all say, they need to be licensed. They need this, they need that. And then if you said to them, say, and what does licensing involve? They come up with all of the sort of things that should be and a lot of which eventually will be put in place. They're horrified to discover that it's just, how will this not negatively impact the surroundings? Yeah, that tends to be the biggest qualifier. If you're not going to negatively impact the surroundings, you get a license. Yeah. And if you're horrible, right? Everyone listening here isn't but they know of stories, and they've had to promote themselves by overcoming the negative stories that their potential clients have heard. If you are awful, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from staying in business, other than hopefully market pressure that says, ooh, you can't be in business because you did this, and nobody will use you. Well, there's nothing stopping you from like, moving over to the next county where there's fresh ears and eyes and doing it all over again, yeah, oh, this time we won't kick that dog, right? So, yeah, the lack of and so, you know, I got involved because I came from an industry where you had to be professionally credentialed. I just naturally assumed I needed to be too. And so I started looking into it. So when rumors started that that was coming, I was like, I didn't get involved right from the beginning, both because my business, I just wasn't sort of at a plate with my business to be able to afford the time. Because back is 100% volunteer. We're not for profit. We are working board. So I am currently the chair of the board. That means I, I, I'm working, I'm I'm helping run along with the rest of the board. We are running this, this organization, internationally. And so, yeah, I got involved because I went ahead. Soon as there was a certification for me available, I got certified. I started offering it as a career step for people who are working for me, and now it's mandated, and you work for me, you know that if you start. Once you've done 400 hours that we're going to start thinking about getting you certified. And if you're still working for me at the one year mark and you haven't gotten certified, you're gonna
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 55:13
end up mandated. That's what we do. So you know, I legislation is coming to the province of Ontario. We did not have legislation for for pet care providers. The first round of draft of their legislation is, is all about bricks and mortar. So it's all about standing facilities, and it's all about construction and hygiene and disease control. The next wave will be about the people. Yeah, pack, we're about the people because, you know, we're pet parents. It's about that connection when, when you need to have somebody care for your pet because you can't, you want it to be another pet parent? It would be nice if it was a pet parent that knew even more than you,
Collin 56:08
right? It has gone through those steps and sees the value in that. You know, we talk a lot about the desires and the changing demographics of pet owners and what they want, what they're looking for, and I think what's really important as an industry is we do have these resources to offer them, right? And it's, it's it's it's just we, we work on talking about why it's necessary, why it's important, what it gets them right? It's not just letters, just like you said, it's not just these. It's so much more than that. It's the level of care that they would want, like you said, They'll, they're they are often horrified by what it means and how little barrier to entry there is sometimes, and who is actually accessing their homes or has access to their pet and all this stuff and going. But what if there was a better way? And that's what I really love about pack and the mission that you all are on to help with that going, not just what if there was a better way, but hey, there is one right?
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 57:06
There is a better way. And you know the fact of the matter is, is that this is not having you as a pet parent, know your pet better than anybody. I agree with that 100% you know your pet. Having said that, do you know your pet when you're not there? Is your pet the same when you're not there? The fact is, is that there is a skill set, both taught and intuitive. There is a knowledge base. There is an experience base that's required to provide care for a pet when their pack is away, right? You know, going into somebody's home when they're not there, and their pet, their dog or their cat. Let's be honest, cats are 20 times more territorial than dogs. They're there and somebody is, you know, from the point of view of that cat, somebody is violating their territory, right? Their reaction to that, you know, it could be aggressive, but more often than not, it's internal. It's who's in my territory. I'm going to hide. I'm going to do this overcome. There is a skill set. Not everybody can do it right, do it well, do it the way it should be done. And so, you know, having that way for pet parents to be able to say, yeah, that person knows what they're talking about, right? It's, it's, it's, it's a very competitive market, not gonna lie, it's a com not for Pat. It's a competitive the pet care industry, for all of us who are operating in it is an incredibly competitive market. That's great from an industry standpoint, as far as choice, as far as raising the bar, because you know what, everybody's got to raise the bar. Everybody's got to operate to the best of their abilities. But how do you say definitively I'm doing it? Yeah, certification, really easy way.
Collin 59:25
Now, I know part of, you know, what PAC does is they, you know, they certify the knowledge. They don't do the education they're on. You do have approved, you know, partners on your website that people can go get the CEOs from, what that approval process like, you know, sitting down and, I mean, you said you're a working board. So, I mean, are you taking these additional courses and having access to them and seeing how Okay, okay, wow.
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 59:47
We have a CEU committee. We have a lovely lady out of the state of Washington, Nicole Bennett. She has a facility up there, and she is the chair of our CEU committee. And. And so the CEU committee actually, everything is submitted. So if you're doing if you're going to a conference, right, you're going to NABS, pet centers, what have you, you're going to a conference. And if they, the speaker at the end of the talk is able to put up a code that says pack, and there's a number. That means that they gave us the talk, they gave us their materials, their slides, what the talk is about, etc, ahead of time, we've reviewed it, and we've said, Yes, this can be continuing education for PAC, and it gets a code so any course material, if it's a online learning opportunity, then they submit, and we have to go through every hour of it to make sure that it doesn't violate the code of ethics and morals, and that there's it doesn't violate the humane pet care statement, and that it's not we Don't set the standards we reflect the standards of our industry. So it means that we have to be constantly collaborating with everybody out there to make sure that we are at the forefront of knowing what is accepted. What are the experts saying? So what does the ibpsa recommend? What does fair free recommend? What does the AVMA? What does the cpdt? What are these different education providers? What are they recommending so that we're all on the same page? So the CEU committee for us is Pro is definitively the most time and laborious, for sure, if everything is reviewed, yeah. And it's,
Collin 1:01:47
again, necessary when you have those standards and you're looking to, you know, if you're, you can't not review it, if you're gonna say, this is, this holds to our standards and stuff, and, you know, yeah,
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 1:01:59
yeah. And it's everything because, you know, from the point of view, because so you have provider, which is looking at, you know, animal care. So you know, everything from sanitation to leashing to walking to, you know, signs of stress. You know signs of arousal approaching another dog, all of those different many, many faceted things that go into it, you know, feeding, you know, first aid, all of that. But then on top of that, you also have, you know, when you start looking at manager, you start looking at operations, you start looking at management, you start looking at all of these different factors. And so those are things as well that can be continuing education. So somebody who's operator certified, you know, is potentially sitting down and is looking at, you know, marketing is looking at, you know, emotional intelligence amongst their team and how to foster and to grow, etc. So we have people who are submitting content on that and so we're having to review that content and make sure that even when it comes to the other facets of their business management, that they are reflecting the latest and greatest advice.
Collin 1:03:19
I love that, Jen, I'm so thankful for your time. I know you are exceptionally busy, and you have a lot on your plate, and there's a lot more here. Pac does a lot. There's a lot, you know, legends each individual legislation and how things are moving in the industry and and how you guys operate. So for those who are interested in learning more about PAC, getting connected, looking at the, you know, at the certification process, or, you know, CEUs, what the all that is. How best can they get connected and start following along,
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 1:03:47
absolutely? So one of the best ways, obviously, is definitively go to our website. So which is pack search.org, that is P, A, C, C, E, R t.org. Our Facebook page as well. Pac is another opportunity, but specifically get on that website. If you're actually right now already saying, and I hope you are, as a result of this talk, saying, I want to get certified, then by all means, please. You go to PAC cert.org, you go to professionals, the professionals tab, you go to exam, start looking at as though you were going to take the exam and get a hold of our exam handbook. In the handbook, there is the oath, so the ethics and morals commitment that you're going to make. There's also the body of knowledge. And it lists literally everything that if you're providing pet care, you should know about everything that's in there. And the thing, one thing that I would say, we have had, some people have turned around and said, Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I don't work in a bricks and mortar, so I don't need. To know about, you know, multiple doc or, you know, the daycare stuff. I don't need to know about that. Or maybe I don't need to know about, you know, sanitizing, sorry, not sanitizing. Recently taught I should never use that word disinfecting, that I don't need to know about disinfecting and all of that, because I'm going to individuals homes. One of the first thing that I would say is that the exam was developed by providers of all styles of pet care, bricks and mortar in home, client home, your home, visiting and dog walking. Everybody was involved. And if you look, it's okay, you don't need to know how to disinfect enclosure. What about do you do transportation? Do you collect the dogs? Do you move them? Might you have to move them? If there was a veterinary situation, one of your charges, you've got to transport them to a clinic. Then you really should know about disinfecting procedures for your thing. So you know there are when you look at certification, when you look at the body of knowledge, it may feel like there's some of it that isn't directly applicable to your day to day job, but the flip side is you become a licensed teacher. There will be questions about teaching eight year olds, but I'm going to teach, I'm only going to teach grades seven and eight. You still learn it all, and then you can work wherever. So you know that person who's working at a boarding facility they might want to be doing in home visits under another guy's later point. So there's things they need to know about doing in home visits that wouldn't necessarily apply across so get that body of knowledge. Go through that handbook, get certified. Go to our volunteers page. Volunteer with us. There are some rules for uncertified professionals, but obviously there's a lot of the things that you have to be certified. We can't have educational content being reviewed by anybody but certified. But you can help us with marketing. You can help us with fundraising. There's lots that we can do to help our industry. So P, A, C, C, E, R t.org,
Collin 1:07:15
I'll have that link a couple other things in the show notes. People can click there and on the website so they can get started, get involved. I think that's just a big thing is that it's not just, it's not just waiting on somebody else to do it. I think we have to just take that personal ownership day ahead. Well, and what do I do? Right? Well, how do I get involved? How can I contribute? How can I help not just myself, but others in the industry at whole if I want to see this healthy and lasting for years to come.
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 1:07:41
Absolutely. You know, when we raise everybody else up, we actually raise ourselves along with them. Yeah,
Collin 1:07:48
love that. Thank you so much for coming on the show today, Jen. I really, really appreciate you. Sharing this has been so wonderful.
Jenn Dahinten, PACCC 1:07:54
Thank you. I really appreciate it as well. Thank you for everything that you do. My biggest
Collin 1:07:58
takeaway from my conversation with Jen is that as we look to professionalize the industry, more and more standards will have to be set, whether those are forced upon us through legislation or they are ones that we embrace ourselves too often, both internally and externally, pet care is seen as simple or just instinctual. It's just for quote animal lovers, right? But we're reminded that caring for someone else's pet isn't the same as caring for our own. It takes so much more. It demands education, experience and emotional intelligence as the industry continues to grapple with an identity and the way forward, as people look for more and more certifications and qualifications and professional and training and all of that, it's up to us as the industry to make sure that we know the path forward and that we set those standards high. We want to thank today's sponsors, timed pet and pet perennials, for making this show possible. And we really want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and we'll be back again soon. You.
