605: Innovate & Elevate: Pet Care Synergy with Ines McNeil
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What happens when dog training meets pet sitting? Ines McNeil, APDT Chair, dives into how the pet care industry can benefit from cross-disciplinary collaboration. She explores innovative training methods, shared challenges, and evolving client expectations. Her conversation also highlights the impact of emerging regulations on pet care practices. Ultimately, she showcases how working together can transform care for both pets and their owners.
Main Topics:
Bridging Pet Training and Sitting
Navigating Industry Legislation Challenges
Innovative Dog Training Techniques
Building Collaborative Pet Networks
Enhancing Client and Dog Care
Main Takeaway:
“The more dog owners become educated, the more we can clarify which certifications really matter for a professional.” – Ines McNeil
In today’s pet care landscape, when owners take the time to understand the value behind each certification, they become empowered to choose the best professionals for their furry family members. This increased knowledge helps cut through marketing hype and highlights trainers who are truly committed to quality care. Educated pet owners spark a demand for transparency and high standards, which benefits the entire industry. By fostering a community of informed decision-makers, we create an environment where excellence is recognized and rewarded, ultimately improving the lives of both pets and their families.
About our guest:
Ines McNeil, B.S. Biology, CPDT-KA, is a dog training industry expert with over 17 years of experience. She has operated dog training businesses in Texas and New York state in addition to working for a multitude of organizations as a professional dog trainer teaching group classes, private in-home lessons, and providing board and train services. She was an early adopter of virtual dog training back in 2014 and helped hundreds to trainers make the leap to virtual training at the beginning of the pandemic in 2020.
In October 2014, she founded The Modern Dog Trainer, an industry-leading coaching company dedicated to mentoring dog trainers on the business side of their craft. Her mission is to ensure every community has access to skilled, modern dog trainers by empowering trainers to build successful businesses. She believes that when dog trainers thrive, more dogs get the help they need, and talented trainers gain the resources to make a greater impact. Her work for the APDT-I is an extension of this deeply personal mission.
Outside of work, Ines is a mom to a talented and curious 6 yr old. She also shares her home and life with her husband, a Cardigan Welsh Corgi, a rescue Chihuahua, and a rescue cat named Kiwi ("Kitty" in toddler speak).
Links:
APDT-I website: https://apdt.com/
Webinar: Understanding Dogs Through Body Language and Behavior- https://www.pathlms.com/apdt/courses/10007
Webinar: Audit Only- Learning Theory 101:Introduction to How Animals Learn- https://www.pathlms.com/apdt/courses/7461
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A VERY ROUGH TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE
Provided by otter.ai
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Dog training, pet sitting, APDT, behavior issues, client expectations, industry collaboration, dog behavior, training methodologies, professional development, pet care team, dog owner education, certification, legislation, pandemic impact, animal welfare
SPEAKERS
Ines McNeil, Collin
Collin 00:00
Welcome to pet sitter confessional, an open and honest discussion about life as a pet sitter. Today, we're brought to you by our friends at time to pet and the peaceful pet music, calm music for pets. YouTube channel, Dog Training. In the dog training industry is something that is very closely related to what we do in dog walking and pet sitting. And I think it's really important that we understand changes and how that industry is looking what client expectations are, and just how things are working. And so I'm super excited and honored to have Ines McNeil, founder of the modern dog trainer, and Chair of APDT, on the show today, to talk all about this and exciting things going on. Enos, we've been connected online for a while, and so I'm really excited and honored to again have you on the show and talk about this topic. For those who aren't familiar with you your work or APDT, can you tell us a little bit more about who you are
Ines McNeil 00:51
and what you do? Yes, absolutely. Hi everyone. Nice to virtually meet you guys. My name is Ines McNeil. I'm the founder of the modern dog trainer and currently the 2025, chair of the APDT international now. And, yeah, no, I've been in the dog training industry for over 17 years, you know. I've run my businesses in a couple different states, you know, I've been a contractor. I've been an employee, as a trainer, you know. So I've seen everything in and out of the industry, and so it gives me some really good insights on what's going on. I have a good, good sense of what the pulse is like. And I think dog trainers and pet sitters have a really amazing opportunity to collaborate. So I think this is a really nice crossover.
Collin 01:36
Yeah, absolutely. You've been in the industry a while. How did you get started?
Ines McNeil 01:41
Oh, that's a good question. So I'll go back to the beginning. I'm actually an immigrant from France, so when I was four years old, I moved to Austin, Texas with my family for my dad's job, and we ended up staying because we loved it so much. And ultimately, you know, they were not my parents were not animal lovers at the time they grew up, you know, kind of in rural France, just similar to rural us. You know, dogs live outside, and they're not really a part of the family that kind of set up. So for some reason, I was absolutely obsessed with dogs, and I was lucky enough to live with or nearby two really amazing neighbors, one being a dog rescuer and one being a cat rescuer. So on one side I had a neighbor with about 32 cats, and on the other side I had a neighbor that had anywhere from 10 to 17 dogs at any given time. So I got to really um experience both both canine and feline worlds, and that really just nurtured my my love of animals. And when I was a teenager, I started volunteering at the local no kill shelter, and I was there every weekend, pretty sure I was an adoption counselor at like, 16 years old, and helping families meet you know, their dogs, their future dogs, and so it just kind of took off from there, and I helped, I helped animals kind of adapt to people's lives and their families. Because for me, in that rescue community, I saw the number one reason animals were not able to stay in their homes was because of behavior and behavior issues. So that became a very important reason for my interest in dog training and helping everybody get along.
Collin 03:29
Yeah, well, it really is interesting crossover. You know, you said that phrase you helped pets help dogs adapt to people's lives. And I think we really, really under appreciate that kind of work that we have to go through, or that sometimes it happens naturally, but sometimes we have to do an intentional step of making that process move forward, because we think, oh, I'll just bring in a dog and things will work out, right? And it's very rarely, or some sometimes happens, but often cases it doesn't, exactly,
Ines McNeil 04:00
yeah, and I'm going through that right now. I adopted a new dog about four or five months ago, a little chihuahua. And, you know, we're going, we've gone through the honeymoon period, and now, with spring coming along, I'm, you know, there's more activity outside. I'm able to see more about what her true personality and her triggers are, you know, just learn more about what what she thinks of the environment, and how she experiences the world. And funnily enough, yeah, since we're on a dog pet sitting podcast, I was not a babysitter growing up. I was a pet sitter. So that was my role as a teenager. So yeah, yeah, it was. It was a lot of fun.
Collin 04:40
So when did you start offering it as a service, though, you know, if you're helping people, integrating the pets in their lives, how did you start taking that next step into, you know, professionalizing this and making it your thing?
Ines McNeil 04:53
Great question. So I would say that happened in college. You know, where you're I went to college. College for a degree in biology. So I got my bachelor's degree, and along that time, instead of just getting a regular job, I decided to really launch into dog training. And so that's when I really started taking clients and running my business and building my website, and learning all the different parts that go along with running a business as a dog trainer. Well, I
Collin 05:21
know the world of dog training, there's a lot of different methodologies and techniques and stuff like, how did you start navigating that side and understanding the way you worked, the way you felt about different methods and different ways of thinking?
Ines McNeil 05:35
I'm so glad you asked that question. That's a whole other side of me. So I grew up really connected to dogs and animals, and I really resonated with, you know, a certain TV dog trainer, and you know, even went to the point where I met him at conference in Austin in like, 2008 and, you know, it worked. That training worked for me for a long time. And I, you know, I resonated with it. It made sense in my little brain and but I hadn't gone through any formal education at that point, right? So I ended up adopting my first dog as an adult, a little Husky Shepherd mix. This guy, loker, and turns out he's the one dog, the first dog that I came across that those methods didn't work. It escalated situations instead of de escalated or subdued his behavior. So it forced me to really look around, look at other trainers, you know what are? Take some other classes and learn about other methods that may work differently or may work better for this particular dog, and it really just opened my eyes to a whole other side of training that I had never experienced and never seen before. So once I learned about things like calming signals and just general dog behavior based off of scientific research that really changed my perspective, and I ended up starting a blog about that transition called the crossover trainer. So somebody that crosses over between methodologies is called a crossover trainer. And so I shared my journey about that on that website. I
Collin 07:15
love that because it really showcases how we have solutions until we don't right, and it's we have things that work until they don't, and then many times we're left. And that really is a crucial part in our development as a professional of going, well, do I double down in this and just say it's their problem and their fault, or do I go and find some way to learn and start integrating new new techniques and new methodologies and and I that's such a, I think it's a scary time for a lot of people, especially if you have such a foundation. And we're like, well, this always works. It's always worked, and always shall work. And then that one time, right? That it's like, oh, now what? It's that next step of then going, well, I have to, I guess I have to find something else, right? And being open to those options
Ines McNeil 08:01
exactly, I think, I think my, my pursuit of, you know, a science based degree, you know, biology, I was very much into experimenting. And, you know, I don't, I don't see anything as like, like. I was open to researching new, new ways of doing things than just experimenting with new methods. And I wasn't emotionally like tied to any one particular method. You know, it wasn't my identity. It was really more of what's going to work for this dog. Let me see what else is out there, because I know it's possible.
Collin 08:36
Yeah, when you when, when trainers make that crossover. I mean, how does that impact? I mean, them, personally or, like, their business, their community. What is that process like for them? It's huge,
Ines McNeil 08:50
you know? I think it can be especially for a dog trainer that's been in the industry for a long, long time. At that point, I think I maybe had been training for about five years, and, you know, so I was familiar with the industry, but I wasn't fully integrated like I am now. But, yeah, when you change over like that, there's definitely some cognitive dissonance where, you know, things just don't make sense. You feel like you're, you know, flying blind a little bit. You feel like you don't have anybody you can turn to, and so it's, it's, it's a challenge, but, you know, hopefully you are able to find new communities and new ways of thinking to discuss those challenges.
Collin 09:30
Yeah, anytime you change processes or ways of thinking like you're going to have those kind of fallback moments where, what's your default? I know we do that in the pet sitting world, where we say, Oh, here's a new best practice, right? Here's we're going to implement X, Y, Z, and I can just go through the motions, and all of a sudden it's like, oh no. Like, that's what I did 10 years ago. Like, Ah no. We're supposed to be doing something different. And then you get these feelings of guilt and shame and like, what am I doing? And really, you're having to walk through that process a little bit of going It's okay. I'm learning. I'm still progressing. Saying like I'm, I'm someone's kind of trained, the trainer, right? And that's that falls to falls to
Ines McNeil 10:03
us? Yes, exactly. No. I think you know anybody that's going through that, that's that's learning about a new methodology, it can certainly be challenging. But you know, ultimately, we're all in this for the right reasons. You know, you don't work with animals unless you love them, and so I think for me, it just comes down to put, put the animals first, put the dogs first, and, you know, do what's right by them. You mentioned
Collin 10:29
that you're pretty integrated into the industry now, and I know you're heavily involved. You're the 2025 Chair of APDT. Talk to us about the history of the the association and, kind of its reason for existing.
Ines McNeil 10:42
Yes, yes, it was actually the very first conference I attended as a dog trainer, back 11 years ago, was like the first time I made it out to a conference, and I was shocked by just the overwhelming, like sense of connection and openness and collaboration and community that I experienced there that I haven't really experienced in other areas. And so I became, like an immediate, like, massive fan of the APDT, and ultimately, it was started in 1993 by Dr Ian Dunbar as a place for trainers to come together and share education and learn and communicate together to, you know, ultimately improve and enhance the industry as a whole.
Collin 11:27
And so, you know, you started attending 11 years ago, and you mentioned that sense of community. I know that that that is really important for the pet sitter side as well. Like a it's pretty lonely because you don't ever see anybody. And I think it's really refreshing to have that opportunity to walk in and see, like, oh, wow, hey, look, look, we're all a, like, we're all like, doing cool stuff, and B, like, look, we're all we have the same problems. Let's talk about it, and, like, learn. And it's just this such a wonderful place to go and get quickly connected to people who understand you. Get you as far as, like, how did you then start getting like, so you attend, it's one thing to be attending a conference, I guess Enos, like, why was it important for you to become more involved in the in the association?
Ines McNeil 12:13
No, that's a great question. Real quick. Like, as far as attending a conference, I think it's, it's really powerful, because, you know, I look back and when I first attended, I was roommates with like, three other ladies that, you know, we just kind of found each other online. We're like, let's share a room just to save some money. And I am still friends with them, like close friends with them to this day. So I think that's a really great place to form connections and form because in this industry, both drug trainers and pet sitters. Like you said, it's a very lonely business. It's usually just you, you know, as a business owner. So it's great to meet others that are in your shoes and have gone through those similar challenges. Can you repeat the question,
Collin 12:57
oh, you know, so you're attending. How did you know you when? How did you get more involved? And why was that important for you to important for you
Ines McNeil 13:03
to do? So, oh, yes. So, yeah. So then, you know, just over the last 10 years of really just followed the association, and then, think I joined as a board member a couple of years ago, and it just was coming to a point where I wanted to be more involved in the industry, take more of a leadership role in the community and give back. Ultimately, you know, that's kind of a foundation of what I do is just help other trainers learn more about the industry, how to be better trainers, how to be offering, you know, services that are really enhancing people's lives and ultimately changing their lives. And I thought that volunteering as a board member would be a really great way to help give back.
Collin 13:47
Yeah, especially whenever you want to see positive changes. I think it is very easy to sit back and go, Well, I hope somebody does that right, and I hope, I hope somebody speaks up. And, man, I hope somebody also has my exact same opinion. And I guess I'll just get back to my work that that's the easy part to do. I is it is difficult to step up, but I think it is important, especially with how, you know, dog training, even the pet sitting industry, are so we're so it person led, like, like, all the businesses, like, we're all the already kind of speaking up and talking and sharing best practices with one another. That's where our voices become really important, because more people talking, sure, it means that there's going to be more disagreement, because, turns out, people are really opinionated. But I think that's good to then have those conversations and see kind of how what direction this is going to go, and start doing something positive for the industry, especially one that you love so much,
Ines McNeil 14:41
exactly, yeah, and this association specifically is, in my opinion, been, you know, one of the most welcoming. Like I said, I'm a crossover trainer, you know, I didn't start off using super positive methods, and I always thought the APDT was really one of the most welcoming communities, you know. Even as a crossover trainer, I was able to come in and and share my story and learn from others, other stories as well, and get the most updated knowledge.
Collin 15:11
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Speaker 2 15:16
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Collin 15:35
If you're looking for new pet sitting software, give time to pet a try. Listeners of our show will save 50% off your first three months by visiting tiny.com/confessional we mentioned the association, and I just realized I have yet to actually use its full name, the Association of Professional Dog Trainers International. Now there's little little hyphen, little
Ines McNeil 15:56
different, little different. Now it's actually the Association for Professional dog training now, okay, yeah, change that as well. We kept the acronym, but we changed it from trainers to training to incorporate our new, new members. Yeah.
Collin 16:12
So, why? What? What difference do you feel like that that makes? Because, I mean, it's one like and why was that an important difference for you to
Ines McNeil 16:20
change for you. Yeah, yeah. So about a year and a half ago, we had a really nice strategic planning session with the board, and, you know, we were talking about the future of the organization, and it it became, you know, this is kind of kind of lean into some of the other things we're going to talk about later. But dog trainers don't start out their careers as dog trainers, right? You're usually a pet sitter, you're usually a dog groomer, a pet care technician at the vet clinic, you're volunteering at the animal shelter, you're a dog walker. So we wanted to give a nod to that and open up our doors to those communities as well, and we thought that dog trainers was a bit too specific. We wanted to be the first resource you're able to turn to for dog training information as you kind of evolve your career.
Collin 17:12
I really love that in that perspective, because there is that title, right? Of like, Oh, I am a trainer, right? And I think that that can be, it's good because it allows people to identify that, but it can be a little even, no matter what you do, right? Those kind of monikers can be a little bit exclusionary to people outside. Okay, well, because you don't have the certification, or you don't have this stuff, we're not for you. And I think opening that up really allows people to to see themselves as a as as an asset, as welcome, right? Continuing that welcoming attitude that you yourself experienced, and going, No, we're here for a resource for people who are doing this work. And I know you do also have another level beyond that of a true certification. When did, when did that become part of the association, and how does that work? So
Ines McNeil 17:59
we don't actually provide a certification, yeah, but we have membership structures that allow Professional Dog Trainers to be APDT members, and now, kind of, since our our update back in September, we have a couple, we've gone from like four levels to about three. Ultimately, trainers are at the member level, right? So trainers can be members, and we don't necessarily require any kind of certification, but we do have some, like recommended certifications that we've identified as, you know, leading edge industry standards. You know, they demonstrate excellence and knowledge and experience. You know, pet sitters, dog walkers or rescue volunteers, even people that are training their own service dogs, can now be partners, and we want them to be partners of the association, but also of trainers in their communities.
Collin 18:53
I believe you also have a is it a mentorship program to get connected with other people as well as part of the association? So we have so many member benefits, yeah,
Ines McNeil 19:05
yes, yes. So we have, like, you know, a forum you can participate in and learn and ask questions. There we have member, sorry, mentorship opportunities as well that are kind of opening up throughout the year as as needed. You can obviously attend webinars and attend our conference every year. So there's a lot of really amazing ways to learn and kind of get that experience or that communication.
Collin 19:33
How does the association go about finding those educational resources? I mean, we already talked a little bit about how the industry can be kind of fractured in so many different opinions. And how those things? How does that? How do you start coming around certain things and actually recommending them to members? That's
Ines McNeil 19:50
a great question. So we have our own education staff member. Her number one job is to find qualified speakers for our. And ours for our conferences, and get them booked, so that you know, you're getting the kind of the industry leaders, people that are involved in scientific research, and so you're we're able to kind of filter through all of that information that's out there, right? There's just endless information online, and I think that's one of the most challenging parts of this. And we're able, as an association, to filter through all of that and give you the most relevant, the most qualified information that you need to really understand what's going on.
Collin 20:31
Yeah, it sounds, it sounds like it's a really long process of, you know, of vetting and understanding and the purpose of what that educational tier is. I'm sure there's also going okay. Well, what do our current members need, right? And how do we put together good programs to make sure that's actually going to be beneficial to them in the end?
Ines McNeil 20:50
Exactly, yeah, there's, there's, it's a collaborative effort. We have conversations with board members. We have, you know, our staff, our executive director, and you know, we're always up for suggestions. So if you, if you want to be a speaker, you know you're welcome to contact us. And, you know, toss your hat in the in the toss your name in the hat. But yeah, it's we're definitely vetting to make sure that we're having the right people speaking on the right topics that are relevant. No,
Collin 21:20
I misspoke earlier about you having a set sort of certification program. Do you advocate? I mean, what role does that play, though, in the in the dog trainer industry, does? Does? Does the association have a stance on, you know, it being important? Should people not have it or kind of, how does
Ines McNeil 21:38
that work out? Yeah, no, I think that's a great question. It's something that's always up for debate. Recently, we're seeing a really strong push to develop, you know, more certifications, better certifications, and ultimately, for the industry, certifications are going to be key and an important piece in showing you know your level of excellence, right? You've pursued education, you've pursued experience, and you're obviously clearly dedicated to being a professional and demonstrating that professionalism. So I think it's an important piece of doing business, and people are going to care more and more about that, that being said, dog owners still struggle to understand what certifications are relevant. You know, we are still kind of, if you zoom out 100 years, 200 years, this is still a very like baby industry. It's still just developing, right like there's no legislation yet. But I think that the more dog owners become educated, we can play a role in educating them and kind of clarifying what organization, what certifications, really are important, what they mean for you. As a dog trainer,
Collin 22:49
I know that's that's really one of the biggest issues there of we can feel like it's really important and it can be really beneficial to us, but does the general public population understand what it is, and that's so I know a lot of people have that discussion of, well, if it's if it's not noticeable to the client, why bother? Right? If it doesn't make a difference to that person, why bother? But I think what you're saying here is, yeah, but you have to start with yourself first and understand that. I need to find out what's important. I need to get my education. I need to understand best practice. I need to make sure that I'm doing things in a really good professional way for that person's benefit, and they might not even know what's going on. And honestly, that's probably the best case, because they're just going to get an immense benefit and immense value, and it'll be like magic to them, right? Like, that's kind of what we hope, yeah,
Ines McNeil 23:42
ultimately, it can only be good for you, right? It shows that you have learned the things that you need to learn in order to make a really great impact on somebody's life and their dogs. I will say, you know, as compared to 10 years ago, there are more and more dog owners that are asking about certifications. They may not quite know exactly which ones to ask for, but they are looking into that. So there's there's curiosity and interest there that's developing, which is really exciting to see.
Collin 24:10
Yeah, we see that trend from the pet server side as well, of just more and more pet owners becoming highly educated and highly aware of options, variances, you know, of certifications, of what other things are out there. And that's been really good to see when they start asking the question. I mean, honestly, Megan and I in our business, we've been doing it for 13 years, and I think just recently, we started to have people ask, Oh, you are you've got insurance, right? It's like, yes, it is. I've been waiting a decade to tell people that I have this right. Like, as people, more people become exposed to messaging. It really helps elevate that to where now they start, they can start asking these questions. And it's like, you. Sure, yeah, that's absolutely something that we have. And I'm really glad you asked. Let me tell you more about why that's good for you. You know, you mentioned the laws and regulations a little bit. I did want to have you kind of dive into this and things that you're seeing from your level. Are there things coming down the line? Or what's the the that side of things looking like,
Ines McNeil 25:22
Yeah, I mean, like I said, compared to 10 years ago, we're seeing more activity and more interest from kind of the general public on regulation. Obviously, there's been horror stories, as I'm sure there are in the pet sitting world as well, and I saw that that's just kind of building their awareness of the negatives. And so there's general interest in that's growing, in getting legislation established for the dog training industry. You know, we've been working for years with a collaborative group of industry organizations to draft up model legislation, and that's really serves to provide legislators with example language that they can use, and use that as a starting point. Of you know, this is what this group of organizations says and believes, and so it may be a good place to start. So we've been working on that for several years. And in general, the APDT is really in support of smart and helpful regulation and training. We believe that regulation and laws can be a really positive movement for the industry. And really, we're embracing the possibility that if it's done really well, it can offer consumer protection and clarity on on what kind of professionals to hire for people's dogs. You know, I think we've seen progress in this, and so we're really excited to be a part of those conversations and continue helping nudge that forward. The balance comes into play where we want to make sure legislation isn't prohibitive to newcomers. We want to make sure we're still welcoming of those newcomers. That's core to the APDT, you know, values, and so we just want to make sure that the legislation that's proposed is reasonable and and at the same time, sets a standard of excellence that we're on board
Collin 27:15
with. I know you guys have those couple statements on particular things on your website as well, where? And that's, I guess that's that sample language of like, Hey, here's a professional organization's opinion on these individual topics. Exactly.
Ines McNeil 27:30
Yeah. So when anybody becomes a PDT member, is in there a professional dog trainer joining our association, they do have to essentially check off that they abide by the APDT standards. And so we have established our own standards that, you know, we've all agreed that this is kind of the minimum we expect our professionals to perform at with their clients. And so I think that's really good verbiage to take a look at and really understand where our organization is at
Collin 28:03
well, especially when you look at how different legislation comes about. And I think that's always the biggest fear of is this legislation driven from passion or punishment, and we as industries are going the last thing I want is legislation passed immediately after one of those horror stories as a pure reactionary event that actually is going to be, as you said, very prohibitive to to existing businesses, to new businesses, and make it harder to exist and work in the space. And so finding those ways to have supportive things, because I oftentimes what can happen in laws and legislation is the big players rally behind certain legislation that's kind of like pulling up the ladder behind them as they're climbing up and being like, well, here's we've lobbied. We've got this taken care of. You see it in tech firms and all sorts of other big companies and going well those new players. Sorry, it's too cost prohibitive for you to abide by these, but we can take it, because I can hire another lawyer or two, so good luck, right? And it's like, no, we want these to continue to be good for everybody and good for the client and the pet at the end of the day too. Exactly,
Ines McNeil 29:13
yeah, it's a it's an ongoing conversation, and I'm just grateful to be a part of it at this time in the growth of the industry, and I think we have some really smart people on our team to
Collin 29:25
help guide that. I mean, are you actively reaching out to legislators? Do people reach out to you as an organization, or are you just getting connected organically to these things as they come up? We're actively
Ines McNeil 29:37
involved in conversations. So we've got some really strong relationships with other industry organizations in the dog training space, and so we all kind of come together and discuss bills that have been proposed and see, kind of, you know, where things stand.
Collin 29:56
And I think that's really, that's really encouraging to hear, right? That. You have a seat at the table, because, again, the last thing you want is to kind of wake up one day and go, they did what and how and how, and be left scrambling on the back end to go. Now, what does this mean for my business? Right? How do I now adapt to this? And you know, of course, it won't be 100% fit for everybody, and I think that that's just unfortunately, part of how these things work out, but the goal, again, is to find that scope and that right balance to making it work exactly. Yeah, well, on the heels of legislation and laws, I did want to ask you also about things like, you know, threats or issues that are facing the dog training world and kind of what you're seeing there.
Ines McNeil 30:37
Yeah, no, that's a great question. I think that, you know, post pandemic, or during the pandemic, everybody got a dog,
Collin 30:46
did they? Yeah? Yeah,
Ines McNeil 30:48
every single person, so yeah. Now we're seeing, unfortunately, you know, people's lives are changing again. They're going back into the office. They're, you know, evolving out of into post pandemic world, and people are struggling to keep their dogs. And so I would say, you know, shelters are overwhelmed, rescue groups are overwhelmed, and unfortunately, trainers are often kind of the last ditch effort of trying to keep a dog in home. So we really struggle with being like crisis support, being that last call before an animal is surrendered. So trainers do experience a lot of stress when it comes to that. It's a lot of responsibility placed on our shoulders. Um, you know, if this doesn't work out, we don't really know what's going to happen with the dog. So that's really stressful, and can be kind of a piece that we don't always think about when you're getting into the industry. But ultimately, you know it is, it is part of what we do. So if anything, you know, all you pet sitters out there encourage your dog owners to reach out to trainers sooner rather than later. Even you know, before, if you hear somebody's going to be adopting a dog or getting a puppy soon, even at working with the trainer before they get a dog, can be a really great way to avoid issues once they do get the dog, whether it's, you know, getting recommendations on what breed to go with, where to get the dog, how to set up Your home to welcome the dog home effectively and successfully. So there's, there's all kinds of ways that we can really partner together to make sure a dog is set up for success in their home.
Collin 32:32
Yeah, I really think it's important for dog walkers and pet sitters to be that first vocal voice for the owner and their pet, and I know many times it can, we can feel bad having to talk about some behaviors that might not be the most conducive to a happy lifestyle, and we feel like we're having to share bad news to the client, telling them about these things. But it really is just realizing that we, we are an advocate in that moment and and and being able to say, hey, I have these concerns. It's not that big of a deal now, but in a year, or when your puppy gets older, we may like, we're not going to be okay. So here's the name of a trainer we we love and we work with. Let's, let's start doing that to set you all up for success. Yeah,
Ines McNeil 33:18
I love that. I love that. And even before you even see behavior issues, right? Like, you know, I think if you see somebody bring home a new dog, you know, just say, hey, you know, I have this great trainer in my network. I think that they would be really valuable resource for you during this transition phase, you know, yeah, like that. You don't have to come to them as here's a problem I'm seeing.
Collin 33:41
That is true, just making it part of that. Oh, you've got a dog. Hey, when you get a dog, you need to have a trainer's phone number on speed dial and just start doing some introductory things. Because part of what that does for the owner is sure it helps them adapt to the home. And I love that you mentioned about getting the home set up for them, because I'm bringing a dog into a home that's set up for people, not dogs, and there's a lot of issues that can arise in that or or at least friction that can happen in the life of the owner. And going, let's start right now to make this as smooth as possible, because I want you to live your best life with your dog for as long as possible, and this is just part of that natural progression. Now, of let's get connected to this trainer, let's get connected to this and start building this
Ines McNeil 34:27
as a team. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's leading into a really important conversation that I think we'll get to is it adds value to you, right? Like, you come to the table with not just services as like, you know, a transactory service, you come to the table now with resources and experts at your side that you can kind of bring to the table as as needed. And I think that adds value to you as a service provider.
Collin 34:55
Yeah, you know, I often think that there's more. More information accessible than ever before for owners, right? And yet the number like, they still struggle to implement, implement any of and that's where Mala this falls down, right? I see you vigorously nodding, yes,
Ines McNeil 35:17
yes, no. And the other thing is, you know, when you bring in a professional trainer, you're able to skip, skip the line and skip the years of experience, of trial and error, of furniture ruined, you know, of guests scared away, out of your house. So you're you're able to skip all of that trial and error and and pay for essentially, a professional to come in and tell you exactly what you need to know, how you need to do it, when to do it. You know all of those details right out the gate. So it's such a convenience to have a professional come in and really support you through that.
Collin 35:51
And I love the idea too, that you had said even before, they have that dog sitting in their home going, Okay, now what having that, that free dog conversation of, hey, let's put together a what do you envision your life looking like, right? And what they what? What things should we possibly avoid given your lifestyle? Because that's a we get clients sometimes, who they go, Well, I grew up on a farm, so we always had cattle dogs, and so I've always loved cattle dogs, and now I have a cattle dog, and it's like, but you are okay. God bless.
Ines McNeil 36:27
Yep, exactly. I mean, yeah, a trainer can really understand, you know, the the reasons why dogs were bred a certain way, you know, breed specific behaviors are there. Should be acknowledged. It's not like, you know, it's the cookie cutter thing, but there are tendencies that need to be addressed for the animals welfare in the way they're living in your life, and there are certain breeds that are just not going to be a fit for every family. So I think that's that's a conversation a lot of times when people get dogs, as I'm sure everybody here that's listening knows it's really just because of how cute they are without much consideration for, you know, the the breed tendencies and what they may experience living in their current lifestyle.
Collin 37:09
Yeah, and help. It does take some hard conversations too, because also, I know a lot of people get their friend may get a certain breed of dog, and they go, Oh my gosh, look what they get to do. They could do all this fun stuff, and then their dog doesn't, you know, like going to the park or doesn't like the car rides, and then there's this disappointment and let down. So it's just, it's a reminder of just how emotional all this is. And sometimes I'm, you know, from a from a trainer's perspective, I mean, there's, yeah, there's the behavior aspect, but then you got to work with that owner and start kind of teasing through, you know, do you break out your your psychological couch and sit down and go tell me about your like? I'm sure there's a lot of that kind of unpacking these things with the owner.
Ines McNeil 37:49
Absolutely. Yeah, we get into family dynamics quite a bit. Um, been a, been a marriage counselor a couple times in my life. It's, it's fascinating. Yeah, yeah. I remember, you know, one couple was, was kind of joining their lives together. One had two small dogs, one had one larger dogs, and one, you know, one side of the family wanted to let the dogs up on the couch. The other was adamant that they shouldn't be allowed up on the couch. And it was, you know, tug of war on that for a while, but I got to, kind of help, help both sides see each other, you know, and understand their needs. So, yeah, understanding the human dynamics in the dog world is important to this career, for sure.
Collin 38:31
Yeah, can't forget about the people. You know. I've never a dog has never reached into his pocket to pay me at the end of a walk, and a cat's never called me to scoop his litter box. Like It's always, it's always a person that has concerns or problems, previous experiences, biases, they've got all of these things wrapped up. And you know, it's sometimes for us, sometimes it's it's not about the dog getting let out to go potty. Sometimes it's about giving that person freedom to go see their family member in the hospital and going, there's just a lot here. And when we lose sight of that, sometimes it's it's harder to connect with our clients and make sure we are adding that value and serving them well, like you mentioned,
Ines McNeil 39:09
yeah, no, I love that. I think that's a great way to see it, especially as as a pet sitter, you can really enable people to live really amazing lives with with your help.
Collin 39:20
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Ines McNeil 40:07
Yeah, no. I mean, I would say I would start out by just looking at our trainer search. We have our members are listed in our trainer search, and so look up your zip code, see if there's anybody in your area that you know has accepted our standards of dog training and see if there's somebody that you can connect with and just start that conversation. Say, you know, I'm looking to expand my network this year. You know, I want to connect my clients with, you know, the best professionals in the area when it's relevant. And so I'd love to meet up for coffee. And I would say most people are open to that, because I think everybody's looking for those kind of relationships now. And same for dog trainers like I can't tell you how many dog trainers are now, kind of starting to add dog sitting, specialty, dog sitting to their services, because they serve a lot of dogs that have special behavior needs. And so being able to connect with a professional pet sitter that's going to allow them to trust that pet sitter and know that they're that dog is being well cared for, and you know, you two are aligned on, you know, how to handle the dog, can be a really powerful tool for for dog owners. So, yeah, and very, very
Collin 41:17
valuable for sure, well, and you mentioned earlier about the being able to add value to a client by having those connections. Why is that so powerful these days?
Ines McNeil 41:28
Yeah, so I think when we look at dogs like we all love dogs, there's never been so many services available to treat dogs in some capacity, right? So, from behavior, you've got trainers, you've got pet sitters, dog walkers, you've got groomers, right for their physical like, grooming needs, and then you've got veterinarians as well that are treating medically. And only good can really come of those groups of people coming together to understand one dog as a whole, right? So you kind of think of the dog is at the center and all around you've got all of these professionals treating it for some something or another, right? And so the more that those groups of people can come together and really become a care team and be on the same page with what's going on with this one dog, or, you know, family groups of dogs, the better that can come, you know, better solutions, better ongoing treatments and improving the dog's life when everybody can really come together.
Collin 42:29
Yeah, you know, it can be as simple as going, Hey, your dog seems really good at x, y, z. Did you know that there's an agility trainer right down the street that you can get connected with, or, or maybe your dog's really good at when I do, I do sit like so a lot of pet stores provide, like, scent enrichment, where they'll bring over different scents. You know, do do hunts around the house being like, Man, did you know there's a really big barn Hunt Group down the road that you could y'all can go and compete like you're giving that person access to a whole community that can really enrich their life, but fundamentally help them bond with their dog better and at a much deeper level than they were before. And that's such a beautiful gift to give that person, because our time is so limited. Owners time is so limited with their pets as it is being able to say, here's this great way for you to spend more time with your dog, like, who? Who Who doesn't want that, right? Like, that's so, so great, exactly,
Ines McNeil 43:23
and when that owner can know that, like, you know, all of those you know, their their groomer, their trainer, their pet sitter and their vet are all on the same page on how to handle the dog, how to, you know, work with the dog. The dog's life is really going to be so much better because, you know, everything from cooperative care aware groomer can reduce their stress and get better grooms out of the dog to making sure the dog is on the right medication for the right behavior issues, you know, if that, if it comes to that. And so I think the more we can collaborate and really build out these kind of systems around any one individual dog, I think the better, and
Collin 44:04
having that long term view in mind, going, okay, hey, congratulations on your puppy. Like, great. Here's our here's our care plan for that. Yeah, but also, we need to be thinking 10 years down the road, 15 down, years down the road, because, you know, it's, it's weird to say, but like, is your dog prepared to easily take medications if that time comes? Is your dog going to be okay getting nails trim for the rest of its life? Are you going to be able to give shots realistically? Because we've seen on Facebook groups where people have said, I have to surrender my dog or whatever because I can't give my dog medications, and it's so like, oh my gosh, there's so much work that you can do before you get to that point. But if you're not intentional, if you don't have that good care team, you're going to find yourself there where now it's a struggle, and now it's a quality of life issue, and now you have to have some really tough conversations. Exactly,
Ines McNeil 44:53
yeah, you know, all it takes, unfortunately, is one really negative experience for a dog to totally change their personnel. Description of other people, of professionals that come towards them with sharp objects. And so, yeah, I think that really developing that collaboration amongst different professionals that may be in that dog's life can really improve the dog's life and make everything more convenient for the owner.
Collin 45:18
Yeah, and have that going throughout their entirety of life. We're not just doing potty training. And then that's the last time we use the word training in this dog's life like it's an ongoing thing. It's a ongoing socialization, ongoing exploration. It's, you know, we'll, we'll do this thing with dogs who are comfortable and are and are calm. You know, trying to get them up to increase hands on time. You know, touching their ears as they're comfortable, doing paw pads. You know, feeling around their mouth again as they're comfortable and working with them in that so that, hopefully this increases their time to enjoy when they're out of groomers, or when they're going to the vets and they're being poked and prodded and moved and lifted and all this stuff anyway, going, Hey, we're trying to make it so that, because that means that the owners more likely to take their dog to the groomer on a regular basis, more likely to do those annual checkups, more likely to get them to a trainer if the dog is in this situation. So it's really trying to think holistically and have that good network of people who are on board with that kind of thing, and coordinate that care like that. That really is a massive thing that we can help provide
Ines McNeil 46:16
Exactly, yeah. I mean, think of you know, if you're doing that work of really helping the dog adapt to being touched and getting paws handled and ears touched. I feel like that can only add value to the groomer, and then you become potentially a referral source for them, because they know you're going above and beyond just, you know, feeding the dog and letting it
Collin 46:38
out to potty, yeah, yeah. Well, and, and being on the same page, if that dog is going through a training program, right, being able to it takes a little bit of time, but saying, Hey, I'm going to schedule time to talk with the trainer and just make sure that I'm being consistent when I go over, right? That's huge in the life of the pet owner. Going, Yeah, my my dog trainer and my pet sitter are collaborating with one another, and maybe I don't just send an update to the owner, but I also need to update the trainer for things that I'm seeing too, so that they can get a professional opinion and everybody's kept in the loop. So it does require, I think, just, I don't know, 10% more level of work and communication, but it really pays dividends in the end,
Ines McNeil 47:19
yes, exactly, because then you really become a trusted resource for that groomer or that professional, whoever that you're doing that for, you know, for trainers that work on behavior and even, you know, just basic obedience, like I'm, I'm a big advocate for communicating with the vet, letting them know, here are the things we're working on, why we're working on them, and then having the owner take that handout or take that summary over to the vet, so that the vet's aware of the training that's going on. And that's another great way to get an introduction right. By the time you visit the vet, they've already heard your name a couple times and established a really positive association with it. So
Collin 48:01
I love that, because sometimes it's hard for the owner to communicate exactly what's going on. And for no fault. I mean, they're it's just they're not steeped in it. They don't live, eat, breathe, breathe, drink, this every single day. It's okay going, Hey, here's a little write up from my perspective on how we're doing things. Take this next time you go, x, y, z, and as a great way of saying, just giving them a little heads up, right? And they can't, but be thankful for that. Of going, this is really, you know, I'm sure they would love to know all of the dogs, reactivity, stress, you know, and stress levels and things like that. A groomer is going to really want to know, like, that's going to benefit them so much. That's true. That's true. Yeah, could do it for groomers too. Yeah. Well, I the the association as really helps prepare their members for a lot of things, and beyond networking and education, how are you guys helping dog trainers through things like, you know, economic uncertainties and how to navigate those waters? Yeah, no, I
Ines McNeil 49:01
think, you know, the APDT has always strived to be kind of a hub for communication and collaboration, and so, you know, we have a really amazing online forum in our app, and you know, we're constantly listening to what our members want and need and developing educational resources that can help them through these times. We're also expanding our partnerships. So as part of kind of my role here as chair, you know, one of my kind of personal goals during my time here is really to expand our value and partnerships that we've developed and really give our members access to even more resources that are kind of no brainers, in my opinion, especially as most of our members are kind of solo business owners. You know, they're not part of big corporations or anything. So I want to try and get them some more benefits and hopefully some good announcements soon, maybe by the time this has been aired. We. Food and so, yeah, it's really just about making sure we're giving our members the right access to the right tools, and developing partnerships that are going to help them grow their businesses and establish kind of more stable lives as business owners.
Collin 50:15
Yeah, I know. I mean training as training as it is, a lot of people see as like a secondary, a tertiary, as you mentioned, like last call, dog is already coming out the door. You've got one chance to save this. And so having helping people understand the value of that work before we get to that point, you know. And I know, from our perspective, a lot of times people think pet serves can just be we're just, you know, magic workers of like, hey, my dogs, I'm not gonna do any thing to help you or set you up for success. I just want you to come in and successfully get my dog out to potty or on a good walk. And it's like, that's not how any of this works. So I can't imagine how much more so in dog training, of like, Hey, can I book, you know, one visit for you to come over and, quote, unquote fix everything, really getting people to understand the value of and necessity of multiple and prolonged relationships. Yeah,
Ines McNeil 51:07
yeah. No, exactly. I think it's easy to fall into, you know, just doing what the client says that they want, right? And just doing that one session is kind of the business coach coming out of me. But, go, go. But, you know, ultimately, very minimal things can, you know, essentially get accomplished by doing just a one lesson offer. And so I always like to say, you know, give people a solution that's really going to solve their problem. That's what they're coming to you for they have a problem, they need a transformation, and give them the best option that you can deliver that's going to make sense, and that, you know, is going to give them that transformation as best as possible. And that often is not a one session package, or it's not even a package at that point, it's just one lesson. So you know, no matter what people say they want, they ultimately need to get from A to Z, and you have to come up with a solution that's going to give them that. So, yeah,
Collin 52:12
what are you seeing modern pet owners looking for you mentioned, you know, they don't always say what they want. What are you seeing from the association or just your own personal perspective?
Ines McNeil 52:22
Yeah, no, I would say dog owners right now are looking for compassionate providers. So they want to, obviously have their dog treated well, but they also want to not feel like they're going to have somebody come in and judge them, and that it's going to be like a military boot camp, and that they're going to have to turn their lives upside down to address any kind of training issue. And so life is already chaotic enough as it is, so I would say they're looking for trainers that really understand where they're coming from, what they're struggling with, what lifestyle they thought they were going to have, and where they're at now. And so anytime you can show dog owners that you understand them and that you know you're there for the dog, but also for them, I think that's a really positive thing to try and do.
Collin 53:13
So yeah, yeah, there's one. There's you can certainly recommend something, but it has to be practical and doable. Like, Hey, have you considered turning your house into Fort Knox and never leaving? Have you tried that? Maybe it's like, well, sure that could work, but also, right? Like, we have some problems with that, and I'm sure that's definitely having taking the time to really see what's the best way to make this progress that we're looking for. Like you said, we need to get from point A to point B. And I don't know exactly how many steps along the way it's going to take sometimes or I make plan out, but it has to be realistic and doable for that person. And you don't get that kind of customized care and plan without listening to the person and understanding where they're coming from,
Ines McNeil 53:57
exactly, exactly. I think you have to go in and and understand, you may have this curriculum in mind. You may have, you know these things you want to check off your list to get them there, but you have to meet people where they're at and what they're, you know, physically, emotionally capable of handling at the time in their life that they're at.
Collin 54:15
I love that. And Enos, I really want to thank you for coming on the show today and sharing about the amazing work that your the association is doing, the struggles and some of the things that dog trainers are facing, how we can best work together to better the life of the pet and the owner. I know that you guys do a whole awful lot, and that we've just barely scraped the iceberg here. So how can people learn more about the association? Get in touch and follow along with
Ines McNeil 54:39
everything? Yeah, I would say go to our website. That's really the number one place where we put everything that we do. It's the apdt.com and then we also have a huge amount of resources, both free and paid for pet sitters. I would definitely direct you guys to our webinar. That's. Called Understanding dogs through body language and behavior, and it's a really great starting point to understand dog behavior, which, if you're going into any home with a dog, you might want to understand that. Then also you want to get a little bit more nerdy than that. You can go to our webinar that's called Learning Theory. 101, it's an introduction to how animals learn. And so ultimately, animals are always learning. Whether or not you're actively training them, they are learning. So I want to know that one too, so you understand how your actions can impact their behavior as well.
Collin 55:35
Yeah, we got a new Corgi puppy that we rescued, and, my goodness, most observant dog in the world. Didn't know we're so we're really having to be intentional on that so I know what I'm gonna be watching later. But sorry, Enos, I really thank you for coming on. I'm gonna have those links in the show notes and on the website so people can get connected to those resources and start learning more. This has just been an immense pleasure, and I'm so thankful, Enos. So thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you so much for thinking of us. How do we start bridging the gap between trainers and pet care? It starts with client education. We firmly believe that when clients know better, they'll do better, they'll seek out the best, and they'll look for partnerships within the pet care community as we reach out to those around us, whether that's trainers or boarding facilities, or whether that's groomers or that's veterinarians or behaviors, whatever that is, as we reach out to them, start from our foundations of the best care possible for the pets, and build from there. Have a network, have a resource of referrals that you can provide to your clients or potential clients. If that comes up when we refer out to one another, it helps build trust in camaraderie within the industry, something we could all use just a little bit more of. We want to thank today's sponsors, tying to pet and our friends at the peaceful pet music, Collin music for pets on YouTube, for making this show possible, and we really want to thank you so much for listening. We hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and we'll be back again soon. You
